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For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter. |
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09-10-2011, 06:29 PM | #1 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-23-08
Location: York, PA
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Judging question
Not to beat a dead (or on life support) horse, but, is it the opinion or official position of anyone on, or representing the board, that CBJ's are permitted to, or encouraged to offer specific cooking or preperation advice to cooks?
Example, a comment card that says "need to inject." Thanks.
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Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head |
09-11-2011, 09:17 AM | #2 |
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My suggestion would be to answer "why" does the cook need to inject. Was the meat dry or did it not have any flavor? How does a judge know if the cook did or did not inject? I recall a comment card telling me I needed to take the membrane off of my ribs when I had done so. I suggest a judge be specific regarding their observations.
Benny |
09-13-2011, 01:52 AM | #3 |
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Join Date: 08-08-07
Location: Cartersville, GA
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I agree that comments from judges should be entirely empirical and free of the judge's guesses as to why a particular state was achieved. It is enough to simply relate what you experienced rather than attempt to blindly diagnose (or worse yet, propose a cure for) the negative attribute you detected in the sample.
Few things annoy a cook more than those "don't use lighter fluid" or "clean your grill" comments from judges. In most cases they are incorrect assumptions and not helpful. |
09-15-2011, 07:30 PM | #4 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-23-08
Location: York, PA
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Didn't KCBS Board members used to read this forum?
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Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head |
09-19-2011, 06:43 AM | #5 |
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Join Date: 09-23-08
Location: York, PA
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Anything from the BoD?
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Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head |
09-25-2011, 05:31 PM | #6 |
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Join Date: 09-23-08
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Complete silence from the Board? WTF?
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Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head |
09-26-2011, 09:54 AM | #7 |
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What do you want the bod to say?
Judging is subjective. Never got a constructive comment card myself, so me, personally, I don't think much of them and I don't hold much account to them. Obviously, you're expecting more from a comment card than I am. |
09-26-2011, 10:17 AM | #8 |
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Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Name/Nickname : Hance
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I've seen some (posted) that could've been helpful, and I've seen some (personal experience and posted) that weren't worth the paper nor time. For a long time I've been a fan of check-box comments, because knowing some of this could/would be helpful (IMHO). I mean, as a cook, I'd like to know. Probably the easiest would be tenderness:
Mushy Tough Rubbery Crunchy Greasy Dry Fatty Taste might be: too salty too sweet bland petroleum too spicy/hot off-taste too smokey too saucy Appearance, probably not. It's purely subjective as to what the individual finds appetizing. They either do, or dont.
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Hance - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from darn near anywhere) My competition daze are probably behind me now; I pretty much cook for family, friends, and frankly the peace and solitude I get from smokin' on an offset... Was Lang 84DX, now Bubba Grills 250R and many Weber grills |
Thanks from:---> |
09-26-2011, 01:28 PM | #9 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-23-08
Location: York, PA
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My inital request was on the comment that I recieved and saw (seperate contests) that gave a directive on HOW to cook. I.e, "Inject your meat." This too me is a judge overstepping the bounds of the oath and what they are supposed to do. I have no problem with descriptive terminology (mushy, fatty, bland, etc) but for a judge to tell a cook HOW to cook is just offensive (IMHO).
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Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head |
09-26-2011, 04:14 PM | #10 | |
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Join Date: 11-23-10
Location: Hillsborough, NC (UNC "TarHeel" country!)
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Quote:
Seriously, if comment cards are used correctly I think that they CAN be beneficial - as in stating the reason a particular score was given. But I definitely agree that a judge has NO business trying to tell a cook how to cook! When/if I give a 7 or below I think that the cook deserves to know WHY I gave that score! Without feedback from the judges on why the score was low how can a cook expect to "fix" a problem (if a problem exists). If 4-5 judges all gave the entry low scores I would hope (as a cook myself) to get at least ONE comment card to indicate WHY!
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[COLOR=black][B]TOM[/B][/COLOR] [SIZE=1][COLOR=sienna]Emergency REP - KCBS[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=sienna]CMJ - KCBS (100+ club) & Carolina BBQ League (NCBBQA)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]CBJ - MBN, NCBS, NCPC, SBN[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]CTC - KCBS[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]4 Lil' Pigs Competition BBQ Team[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]270-Sumo, LANG, BDS, & Holland Epic[/COLOR][/SIZE] |
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09-26-2011, 05:32 PM | #11 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 06-21-06
Location: Lawrence, Kansas - The Great American Outback
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I am both a cook and a judge.
When the judges are instructed on what to provide on the feedback cards, they are requested to provide 'constructive comments' that will 'help a cook improve'. I think that there isn't much of a leap between 'use a sharper knife' and understanding that the judge found the edges of my ribs to be ragged and there for less appealing. Or 'use less salt' means that my entry was too salty. Etc. Remember, any time a person is feeling offended, that should throw up a signal flag that there is an opportunity to learn something. I am here to learn as much as I can about cooking and competing in BBQ - everyone has something to offer, no matter who they are or what they have to say or how they say it.
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We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it. - Abraham Lincoln ------- One Moocow UDS! (Thanks, Shane!) http://www.moocowbbq.com/ Two Weber 22.5" kettles One Brinkmann Smoke'N PitMaster Deluxe One LARGE WSM! (special black glossy finish) w/Stoker! WooHoo! KCBS Member/KCBS Master CBJ #24295 Sweaty, smokey and enjoying every minute. |
09-26-2011, 07:58 PM | #12 |
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Join Date: 07-14-09
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Name/Nickname : Hance
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I hear ya, but often they're not saying "use less salt", they're saying "cooked too long" when it was actually "mushy" or worse it was actually "tough" and they thought it was cooked too long, when in either of those cases the cook chose the wrong piece of meat that was mushy (otherwise cooked to perfection) or it was tough because it was under-cooked. More often than not what they're recommending doesn't tell you what was wrong. In the example given at the start, what was wrong with the meat. Honestly, as a competition cook, I have no idea. "Need to inject"? Why? Was it too dry? Was it bland? Was the judge a moron? We're left to guess. I'm choosing option 3. My guess is that he/she has no idea what injecting has to do with it. For that matter, what if they DID inject? What was the value of that response? Some of injecting is WHAT you inject with, so as to assist in breaking down fats, or NOT to assist. It was a very bizarre recommendation.
I'd rather, as a cook, them say point blank what the problem is. As a cook, with any luck, I can figure out how to fix it. More often than not I've cooked 1,000 more butts than they have (seriously). I LOVE feedback, positive and negative. Give it, but dont critique the cooking method if you have no clue as to what I've done. A rookie or new team, if they dont understand how/what to change to fix the problem; they've always got bbq-brethren, right? JMHO.
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Hance - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from darn near anywhere) My competition daze are probably behind me now; I pretty much cook for family, friends, and frankly the peace and solitude I get from smokin' on an offset... Was Lang 84DX, now Bubba Grills 250R and many Weber grills |
Thanks from: ---> |
09-27-2011, 06:21 AM | #13 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-23-08
Location: York, PA
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Quote:
As a cook and judge, I try to see both sides of the coin, and have NEVER thought to question HOW a meat was cooked, only the results. Are judges not speciically instructed to judge the meat AS PRESENTED; not, preperation methodology?
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Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head |
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09-27-2011, 08:10 AM | #14 | |
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Join Date: 01-19-11
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Quote:
Thanks.
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09-27-2011, 08:26 AM | #15 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-23-10
Location: Hillsborough, NC (UNC "TarHeel" country!)
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Actually I hear these words A LOT more when receiving "judging instructions" for MBN than KCBS; HOWEVER, it is stated in both. I think that it is more emphasized in MBN as you actually get a brief on "how" the meat is cooked at the grill during "on-site" judging.
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[COLOR=black][B]TOM[/B][/COLOR] [SIZE=1][COLOR=sienna]Emergency REP - KCBS[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=sienna]CMJ - KCBS (100+ club) & Carolina BBQ League (NCBBQA)[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]CBJ - MBN, NCBS, NCPC, SBN[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]CTC - KCBS[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]4 Lil' Pigs Competition BBQ Team[/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=#a0522d]270-Sumo, LANG, BDS, & Holland Epic[/COLOR][/SIZE] |
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