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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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03-07-2009, 10:39 PM | #1 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 09-10-08
Location: Oceanside, New York
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Judging Questions
Hi All
After taking the KCBS judging class in MD in 2008 and being instructed to judge appearance of the box on the meat and not the garnish and... After reviewing some of the threads in the competition section I was wondering?: 1: there seem to be a lot of comments regarding judging turn in boxes regarding garnish, specifically, not symmetrical, 1 leaf overhanging the box, not enough parsely on one side etc etc Q: Are these comments and suggestions based on how you judge if you are a KCBS judge OR just what you want your box to look like when you turn it in? The class I took they were emphatic about judging the MEAT appearacne and not the asthetics of the garnish and artistic presentation of the box? thanks for your help
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Tim- Stubborn Bull BBQ Team Extreme BBQ Trailer 2 Humphrey Pints and Half Pint, 2 Cubed Pints 18" WSM, Hasty Bake Ranger, Weber Performer Old No 7 |
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03-07-2009, 10:52 PM | #2 |
Moderator
Join Date: 09-17-05
Location: Mooresville, NC
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No matter what the rules say.. it's part of the game.
Top notch garnish arrangement will make the meat standout.. Attention to detail w/garnish can also positively affect the taste score before it is even sampled (as wrong as that may be). A judge may be more apt to have pre-conceived idea that it will taste good and will have a harder time scoring it down if it looks like it should taste good. As much as most might say they don't judge the garnish, it has to have some subliminal effect for some judges.. and that's all that might be needed to get a better score/placing. Also remember - not every contest has 100% CBJ's..
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XL BGE (#2) & Performer Platinum Former owner: Jambo Backyard, Klose BYC, Lonestar Vertical offset w/ Insulated Firebox, Medium Spicewine, Pitts & Spitts, XL BGE (#1) & (2) Medium BGE's, 22" WSM & (2) 18" WSM's, 18" & 22" Weber Kettles |
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03-08-2009, 12:59 AM | #3 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 01-31-05
Location: Ridgefield, CT
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Amen!
Yours in BBQ, Cliff
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Member KCBS,Member NEBS,KCBS Certified BBQ Judge "The Twins" 2 BWS Fatboys with experience! NB Black Diamond with Mods,CB Bandera with Mods CharGriller Outlaw with Mods,2X WSM in Comp. Mode Weber Kettle 22" Gold, Kirkland Signature SS Gas Grill La Caja Asadora - Caja China - Cajun Microwave 1 "Primal Meat Smokers" BBQ Team Purple Primal Smoker Turtle! |
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03-08-2009, 07:31 PM | #4 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 02-19-06
Location: Kansas City
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Along the lines of what Vinny said... Even if you arent judging the garnish per se, Sloppy garnish can make the meat seem sloppy too. Pale or yellowed leaves, can also give the appearance of subpar meat. If you are putting garnish in the box, it is to enhance how your meat looks, and make it look more appitizing. That is why we are generally anal about garnish in the boxes, and how it looks. :)
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Andy /Smoke on Wheels Competition BBQ - www.smokeonwheels.com |
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03-08-2009, 07:39 PM | #5 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 04-02-07
Location: Warren, Vermont
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Gotta remember that the boxes are passed by each judge pretty quickly so first impressions are very important. All other things being equal, a well garnished box - one that presents the meat to the best advantage, makes a better first impression.
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Jim - Another transplanted Texan Former KCBS CBJ Large and Medium Big Green Eggs , Black 18.5" WSM, Blue Weber Performer - Stainless, Green Weber OTG Kettle , Brinkmann SnP Pro, and a Stainless UDS. One retired Portable Kitchen grill. Red Thermapen, Maverick ET-732, EdgePro Apex Sharpener. Avatar is the original 1951 Weber Kettle |
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03-09-2009, 08:32 AM | #6 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 08-29-06
Location: Arlington, Nebraska
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I was judging a contest and do everything in my power to avoid looking at the garnish. I was doing prettty darn well until I had a question on the cut of meat turned in and aske dth table captain to ask a rep about it. The rep cam over and DQ's the entery because they had red tip in the box and then started talking down a few judges asking how stupid were they they couldn't tell red tip from a leagal garnish. Wouldn't let up and kept degrading them, until I asked if the meat was legal. Broke his chain of thought and he looked at me with disgust and walked away.
Learned two things that day, 1. you have to look at the garnish for legality reasons and 2. that rep was huge d#$k that I have lost all repsect for.
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________________ www.operationbbqmw.org KCBS CBJ 9831 Large Spicewine, Backwoods Smoker (Party), WSM, Oklahoma Joe's Offset, Wood Fired Oven |
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03-09-2009, 08:41 AM | #7 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
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Both Vinny and Andy are right... It's not so much that you are trying to get a score on the garnish, but that the garnish is at the very least not taking away any points from the meat.
Amen Brother!!! Testify!!!
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Jeff CBJ# 23376 Stockcar BBQ Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life! If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish! Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe. |
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03-09-2009, 08:48 AM | #8 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 07-04-06
Location: Cleveland, OH
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also, along those lines, from the mental standpoint, if the garnish is neat, it shows that care went into the box/meat/presentation....and, if I can get a judge thinking positive based on what is put in front of them, then, so be it....besides, working on the boxes gives me some relaxation...yeah, I know, I am sick like that, but, it is a good break from stress, to just sit down, have the music going, and play with some greens......
But, that being said, please, everyone, dont take time to work boxes.....it is the best advice I can give.....
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Them Ohio City Boys BBQ Competition Team 2 Worthless Nuts Them Ohio City Boys All Jacked Up Cleveland, Ohio Jambo (J-3) Black on Black-with Hot Rod Flames FEC w/ IQ4 |
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03-09-2009, 09:39 AM | #9 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 09-10-08
Location: Oceanside, New York
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Thanks for all the input so far. I totally get the first impression thing, the care that went into the box thing etc.
I guess different judging class instructors will focus on slightly different things, but I remember our instructor saying that the appearance should make you want to dive in that box and go to town on it. The more delcious the meat looks the higher the score. if you look at the box and your thinking that you dont want to taste it it should score low. With that being said, some threads in the competiton section that ask for people to judge their turn box have gotten suggestions like, " the burnt ends arent facing in all the same direction", etc Based on the criteria stated above, I am not so sure that if the burnt ends are all facing the same way, it makes the judge want to "dive into the box and go to town" on the meat.
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Tim- Stubborn Bull BBQ Team Extreme BBQ Trailer 2 Humphrey Pints and Half Pint, 2 Cubed Pints 18" WSM, Hasty Bake Ranger, Weber Performer Old No 7 |
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03-09-2009, 09:49 AM | #10 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 07-31-07
Location: Boston, NY
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Quote:
Bottom line on garnish - it enhances the meat. For added fun, have a bunch of black bears run through camp while you're doing this at night. Now THAT is relaxation!
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Mike C. Competitive Cook-Contest Organizer-Promoter of Smoke and Fire Boston Hills BBQ Fest www.bostonhillsbbqfest.com PROUD to support Great Lakes BBQ Supply - www.greatlakesbbqsupply.com |
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03-09-2009, 10:35 AM | #11 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
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Quote:
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Jeff CBJ# 23376 Stockcar BBQ Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life! If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish! Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe. |
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03-09-2009, 10:45 AM | #12 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 07-04-06
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Quote:
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Them Ohio City Boys BBQ Competition Team 2 Worthless Nuts Them Ohio City Boys All Jacked Up Cleveland, Ohio Jambo (J-3) Black on Black-with Hot Rod Flames FEC w/ IQ4 |
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03-09-2009, 03:18 PM | #13 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 01-17-07
Location: Methuen, MA
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Your assuming they cooked the brisket wrong because the parsley wasn't neat? That's a new one.
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Blog In polite society, we have an unspoken agreement to call our obsessions hobbies. - Stephen King |
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03-09-2009, 07:03 PM | #14 | |
Moderator
Join Date: 09-17-05
Location: Mooresville, NC
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Quote:
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XL BGE (#2) & Performer Platinum Former owner: Jambo Backyard, Klose BYC, Lonestar Vertical offset w/ Insulated Firebox, Medium Spicewine, Pitts & Spitts, XL BGE (#1) & (2) Medium BGE's, 22" WSM & (2) 18" WSM's, 18" & 22" Weber Kettles |
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03-09-2009, 07:41 PM | #15 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-22-07
Location: Springfield, MO
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Tim, the garnish threads are always interesting. I do understand why you posted the question. This part of the judging is on presentation only. Since KCBS allows garnish, most competitors use it even thought it is not a requirement. Any food presentation can be better with appropriate garnish as long as the garnish only makes the meat look better, which I think is why KCBS limits what garnish can be used. It will be obvious is the garnish is overpowering and doesn't accent the meat, and should be marked down on presentation. A proper garnish really does draw your attention to the meat and not the garnish. Hope that makes sence.
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my avatar swiped fatties from the plate....look how sorry he is. ________ Meat. NB Bandera with mods Weber 22 .5" x 2, 26.75" x 1 UDS x 3 KCBS CBJ Created "The Great Spam Revelation of 2011." www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111155 |
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