Help me define "good knife"

Okay, I'll bite.

First and foremost, the knife needs to feel good in your hand. If it don't feel good, forget it, it will never be a go-to knife and you'll never perform your best with it.

While I somewhat agree with your opinion that it's not easy to produce a knife with razor sharpness and exceptional edge retention (which I assume you mean by 'low maintenance'); however, I believe edge retention is overrated. Sharpen faster or buy more knives. Problem solved.

I just went through this learning process the last couple of weeks, really needed better knives than the grocery store throw-aways I had been using. To answer your question the best I can (& I'm no expert plus there are a lot of differing opinions out there) ---the metal you select will have a lot to say about sharpness and maintenance. Some high end Japanese knives will maintain sharpness longer b/c they use a very hard steel, but these knives are also more prone to chipping if they get dropped or used for the wrong purpose (chef's knife used to chop through a bone, etc). The German and other western knife makers will use softer steel that is less prone to chipping but will require more maintenance. After reviewing a bunch of options, I went with a Wusthof Classic 8-piece block set I found online for a little under $300. It hasn't arrived yet so I can't provide a review. Also, most nice knife companies have multiple product levels ranging from high-end chef grade to entry-level stuff.

There is some good info out there regarding higher end knives, but a common thread in all that info was how important it is to properly maintain a good knife if you want it to last. The other option is to just buy cheap knives and pitch em when you need new ones.

Hope that helps :thumb:

monty3777 said:

I tend to see German steel as very low maintenance - so long as you don't put too sharp an edge on it.

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I feel German SST knives (Good Wusthof/Henckels) are "Good" Knives. They maintain a sharp enough edge to work very well for extended periods (even when used on acrylic boards). They don't need to be sharpened/honed for each use and will last for years. The downside is they aren't cheap and you can't get them razor sharp.

I don't think there are any "Great" Knives out there because they all have limitations - Japanese Knives require maintenance and are crazy expensive, German Knives can't perform like Japanese Knives, Cheap Knives don't hold an edge and are dangerous as a result.

I feel the best bang for the buck are Victorinox Forschner Knives. They are durable, hold a good edge, and are VERY reasonably priced.

monty3777 said:

When you consider what makes a knife "good" or even "great" what comes to your mind?

All this is part of my desire to find the perfect BBQ knives and the perfect BBQ edge :crazy::laugh:

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First, in my bizarre mind, when I think of a good or great knife, I'm not thinking of cutting or slicing barbecue. For me, most barbecue is pulled; even ribs are pulled apart. Brisket is the only slicing, and for normal home use I'm not going to get all "it has to be perfectly the thickness of a pencil" or "every slice must be perfect and have no flakes".

To me, the optimal knife obtains and holds a very sharp edge for a long time, and lasts a lifetime. They should be well balanced and feel good in your hand so that when you use them they're used correctly. I will pay big bucks (and have) to have a set of knives until I pass away and know that whomever inherits them will enjoy them for another 30 years. The only knives that I'm aware of in this league are German steel.

With that said, I've had my set now for 25 years. When I sharpen them correctly (which is easier said than done) any knife in the set could be used for shaving (literally). They feel great in the hand and have a wonderful balance to them. In my case the handles are wood (MISTAKE on my part) and are still in good shape, but I will eventually either replace the handles or I'll just replace the entire set, but that's still another 10 years down the road...

1. Edge
2. Lasts a LONG TIME
3. Balance
4. with balance goes proper Weight

For brisket I use a granton slicer that's cheap. When I'm tired of it and it gets dull, I'll probably just purchase an electric carving knife. My backup knife is in the set above; the bread slicer is WONDERFUL as a 2nd choice, even in competitions (and this is a 25 year old slicer).

For BBQ the Dexter Russell Sani-Safe line is all you will ever need. They are affordable, durable and take a great edge. Sharpened too 17* you will have a sharp lasting edge. Add to this a quality electric and you're all set.

monty3777 said:

I tend to see German steel as very low maintenance - so long as you don't put too sharp an edge on it.

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Agreed, BUT... Much of what I've seen is knife/edge abuse, like using glass for a cutting board, etc.

I use wood and only wood for cutting boards. The knives stay from fairly sharp to razor sharp... My 8" chefs knife still can slice a very ripe tomato as thin as a sheet of paper... My 25 yr old bread slicer does an even better job of it...

I guess the "ability to be abused and still work great" is probably in there way up on most peoples list, whether they know it or not.

^^^ what Zilla said. Anything more, for barbecue (backyard, home, competition, whatever) is overkill and possibly not even fitting for the purpose.

Well, I am probably not the person to answer this, since I believe each purpose has a proper blade design, material and shape to function correctly. I can't even settle on one knife for preparation work. I do like stainless steel for it's low maintenance in terms of cleaning and general toughness. I tend to use carbon steel for it's ability to easily be tuned up and how it cuts.

I think stainless steel, in particular, Solingen steel, has served me well for decades. It has been an excellent material and takes an edge fine. I use a multiple grade carbide whetstone to sharpen it and I can move the edge from razor sharp to utility profiles very easily. Someday, I want to get a set of diamond hones to replace my old, un-level carbide stone. The stainless blades are tough, reliable and very simple to maintain, or not maintain.

I like carbon steel blades because they sharpen easily and can take an edge from polish to toothed very easily. They balance nicely to me and have always been my choice for detailed work. They do need a little more maintenance.

I would mention that I do not steel my knives, and do not hone or strop at each use. I do hand wash and dry my knives after each session and always store them in blocks or boxes when not used. Once a month, I hit all of my knives with a quick few swipes on a hard fine natural stone to clean up the edge.

I know of no great knife, in terms of steel that is below $75, maybe the Globals. I use Dexter-Russels for camping and public use, mostly because I do like cutting with them and don't care it they get abused. But, Victorinox and D-R knives are a far cry from 'great'.

When I first got married, I used cheaper carbon steel knives. They were easy to sharpen, but didn't hold an edge long. They did respond to a steel better than hard Solingen knives. That was OK, I was young and had time to sharpen. I still have those knives to this day.

About 3 years into marriage, my income went up and I purchased a set of Solingen steel German knives. They hold an edge for a very long time. I only had the sharpening steel that came with the set and the knives kept cutting the ribs off the steel. They were real hard to sharpen and I went through 3 steels and never could get them sharp as new and that was disappointing.

About 30 years later, I purchased a diamond steel and diamond hone system and now I can get ANYTHING sharp...scary sharp.

Amazon.com: Smith's® Diamond Field Sharpening Kit: Home Improvement@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RAyztKTAL.@@AMEPARAM@@51RAyztKTAL

http://www.gandermountain.com/modpe...el&i=401068&r=view&aID=505H5&cID=GSHOP_401068

When I needed a set of working knives I found a nice set of Saber knives on Amazon for a pretty reasonable price. I have used them quite heavily. Use the sharpening steel regularly to maintain the edges and they stay very sharp a long time.
Amazon.com: Saber F-11 Working Chef Knives with Chefs Knife Bag: Kitchen & Dining@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51MfvcisaaL.@@AMEPARAM@@51MfvcisaaL

I guess I'll add my $0.02...

I've always believed that you really don't need a "set" of knives, just a couple that do the tasks you need: Chefs knife for chopping and larger work, paring knife for finer work, and a bread knife. Most of the rest of the knives in the sets never get used. As for quality, I want a knife that will hold an edge, feel good in the hand and not require a lot of maintenance. I don't have a lot of money to throw at a knife so I went with one of these:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKIVG-10.html

I have the 240mm Gyuto and will likely get the 125mm petty soon. I love this knife

I've always been good at sharpening knives and keep a hone in the block but my wife and kids bought a Bobby Flay carving set for me on my birthday. The hone really didn't work very well with it so I went with a diamond/steel hone and this knife has been amazing. I use it mostly on pork loin and brisket and it does a great job. What makes it great to me is, although it's very hard steel and takes some time to sharpen, it holds an edge a LONG time.

landarc said:

...I can't even settle on one knife for preparation work...

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I learned knife skills at a Chinese restaurant. I was allowed to use only one knife, a clever. I can do anything and everything with it now.

My humble tip... put away all but your two most favorite knives and use them only. You'll get very proficient, very fast. Once you've mastered them, bring the rest back to the mag strip and you'll soon find how you can use only those two for almost all your work, and use the others for the very specific tasks.

I'll admit, for the first couple of years I played roulette with my knives, never really knowing which would come in best. That tip set me straight.

I'll also add, by using only two knives for a long time you'll also be able to focus on sharpening those knives to perfection. That's another art in itself and having a ton of different knives to sharpen makes mastering each one quite difficult.

monty3777 said:

I probably should have been more specific. I guess I'm wondering about your opinions concerning what makes a good edge. You are right about the importance of how a knife feels!

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Then specifically, sharpening is what makes a good edge. Not trying to be smug, but I can get all my knives almost equally as sharp. While I researched the heck outta knives for many years, I no longer buy knives based on what the edge ability is purportedly capable of.

I did the Murray Carter course, I've seen crap knives sharpened to glory and it was at that point I stopped searching for the ULTIMATE blade material. Frankly, I think any decent material is capable of an excellent edge. That said, I do like trying different blade compositions for both looks and feel.

I bought a cheap clever made of unknown material, it is probably one of the sharpest knives in my collection. But it took a few years of learning how to sharpen to get it there.

I'm surprised no one mentioned this:

FULL TANG

This simply means that the blade fully extends through the handle to give you better balance and durability.

http://www.learningseed.com/_guides/1335_Knife_Knowledge_101_Guide.pdf