Potential Changes to KCBS Pork Parting Rule

[dmprantz]

Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice

Actually the parting rule came about because of using pork tenderloin.

How are using an illegal cut of meat and isolating small portions of a legal cut of meat even on the same plane of existance? That literally makes no sense. I was told the restriction to shoulder had to do with tenderloin, and the 5 lb and parting rules to do with choice muscle isolation.

Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice

Also the BOD, several eons ago, declared that the igniter rod on the Traegers, FE's, etc. were not a heat source as someone early on alluded to.

That's what people in this forum have claimed several times, but that's not what the KCBS office says. Even if the BOD did find that, it's not true. The hot rod in a Traeger is very much a heat source. Touch one some time. It may not affect things much, but it's a heat source. Some one once told me that an FEC's ignighter has about as much current as a 9v battery, but a Traeger hot rod glows red hot! I was told "It's not going to make a difference and no one's going to know anyway." I kid you not.

Even if I'm wrong about everything regarding the igniter hot rod, find me the official rule, rep advisory, or BOD notes which make them legal. I shouldn't have to look for them or trust "The Brethren's Word", and as far as THE RULES read, it's illegal.

dmp

[dmprantz]

Originally Posted by smoke-n-my-i's

Bill Moon, North Carolina

Sorry. I didn't know your name. Now I do. Congrats (or condolences).

dmp

[Slamdunkpro]

Originally Posted by TooSaucedToPork

Ahhh - but cutting it into pieces with little joining pieces of flesh BEFORE the cooking process is completely legal, it is "one whole piece"

Now what if some of those little joining pieces cook away, or snap do to handling, has the team broken the rules...
Yes, don't angle shoot and you won't run that risk

The Arguement:

Rep: Your pork is not Whole, it had to have been "separated during the cooking process. At no time shall the meat once separated be returned to a cooker."

Cook: My pork was seperated into 5 flaps before the cooking process, and cooked whole and connected, it was not seperated during or after the cooking...

Rep: Prove it

Cook: I can't

Rep: DQ

Cook: I followed the rules to the letter. WT FARK!!!

Rep: No you didn't and you damn well know it. You pushed it right to the edge and in this case fell off the cliff. That's the risk you run when you push the edge - you get cut.


So who is right?

The rep - don't angle shoot and put yourself in a bad position.

[Slamdunkpro]

Originally Posted by Jorge

The math is pretty simple. The ratios is 12.5:1 for cooks and reps. The critical time you mentioned for inspection is currently used for prep for judging, a judges meeting etc.... Without adding additional cost to the organizer and teams you'll be hard pressed to have inspections at smaller contests.

C'mon, that argument only holds so much water. I've worked a lot of contests from the back of the house and the Reps aren't that busy. Usually they roll in about 8:30-9:00, have breakfast, chat with the organizer then they might make a lap with the clock. 95% of the time 99% of the judging set up is done by contest volunteers, the reps just oversee it and it doesn't take all of them to do that. All the reps don't need to prep for the judge's meeting or even give the judge's meeting.

Get up 15 minutes earlier and stop at whatever the number of random teams is: 5? 10? when they do the clock run. We aren't asking them to execute a search warrant or to toss a cell, just a quick "You've been randomly selected for compliance inspection, please open your cooker" or "show me your pork" or whatever. It takes 2 minutes per team at most.

If a competitor chooses not to discuss an issue with another team and simply call a rep, that's fine. The bottom line is that teams/cooks need to take some ownership of the issue as well. I believe there is an obligation there. Not just to the individual but the entire field. Sucks to be me or somebody else that misses a call because another team didn't want to get involved when they saw somebody cheating.

It's a two way street.

It is, but teams aren't (and shouldn't) go peeking between side curtains, lifting cooker lids or looking in trailer windows. If the Famous Dave's delivery guy shows up next door with 4 take out orders or a team that's vending on a Southern Pride has an ice cold stick burner out front yet their finished comp meats magically appear yeah, I'm going to call a rep. But I'm busy with my own food at this point.

Here's some more simple math. If you have 30 teams and you know prior to the event that they are going to random spot check 10 teams then you have a 33% chance of getting inspected (1 in 3). With all the money and effort you (generic you) invest in an event and the potential rewards, are you going to risk getting DQ'd by doing something shady with a 33% chance of getting caught?

[Wampus]

Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro

The rep - don't angle shoot and put yourself in a bad position.

This whole thread has been a VERY interesting read. Fairly new competitor here.


So, you're saying to trim pork butt so to seperate indivisual muscles at ALL is pushing the envelope? I just don't want to get a paper cut.....

[TooSaucedToPork]

Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro

The rep - don't angle shoot and put yourself in a bad position.

Not attacking or starting stuff...

but PLEASE show me in black and white in the KCBS rules where that is illegal and the rep is correct. It is all interpretation and not in black and white.

By the letter of the law they did not push anything...they followed the rules to the letter.

[Slamdunkpro]

Originally Posted by TooSaucedToPork

Not attacking or starting stuff...

but PLEASE show me in black and white in the KCBS rules where that is illegal and the rep is correct. It is all interpretation and not in black and white.

By the letter of the law they did not push anything...they followed the rules to the letter.

Pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out) and shall not be separated during the cooking process. - black letter law (or rule in this case). nowhere does it say "separated by the competitor", it just says "shall not be separated"

The competitor attempted to circumvent that rule by cutting their butt into 5 separate pieces "connected' by small flaps". That's pushing the the limit - you know it and I know it.

The pork separated - is it whole? No. "If the pork is in bits you cannot acquit"

It was deliberately semi separated and one of those separations failed. Again, we're all adults and we all know what the rule's intent is.

Guilty! Next case!

[Alexa RnQ]

Now there's an ideal rule change.

"Pork shall be cooked bone in and whole."

Avoid a lot of tapdancing.

[dmprantz]

Originally Posted by Wampus

So, you're saying to trim pork butt so to seperate indivisual muscles at ALL is pushing the envelope? I just don't want to get a paper cut.....

I don't think you'll find a rep in the country who would say you can't isolate individual muscles. It is within the letter of the rule as long as they are all connected some how and don't come disconnected. You certainly won't find many cheating accusers saying that since some of them probably take part in that practice. Personally though, I think it violates the spirit of the no-parting rule. Pick your poison.

dmp

[dmprantz]

Originally Posted by DivaHerself

"Pork shall be cooked bone in and whole.

What's your definition of "whole?" I agree with you in theory, but at what point does a "whole" hunk of meat become an "unwhole" hunk of meat?

dmp

[BBQchef33]

Originally Posted by dmprantz

What's your definition of "whole?" I agree with you in theory, but at what point does a "whole" hunk of meat become an "unwhole" hunk of meat?

dmp

is this....

Whole?

Not whole?

This was trimmed, bone in and fully intact with little chance of falling apart unless you play tug of war.

[dmprantz]

And yet those who want to set sauce are cheaters who don't know how to cook a pork butt well.....

dmp

[JD McGee]

There are always folks that push the envelope and live on the edge of the rules... Cheaters are gonna cheat until they get caught...then they're gonna want the rules changed. Once the rules are changed the original cheaters are gonna bitch about the newest crop of cheaters...it's a vicious cycle...

[JD McGee]

Originally Posted by BBQchef33

is this....

Whole?

Not whole?

This was trimmed, bone in and fully intact with little chance of falling apart unless you play tug of war.

Looks like some of the Costco boneless butts I've cooked in the past...

[Wampus]

Right. In fact, this is a boneless butt straight out of the cryo I got at Sam's. No trimming involved when this photo was taken.



So, make the rule "whole and untrimmed"?
At what point does trimming become seperating or parting?
I can see completely seperating the $M and cooking it alone being something folks would do. I don't know that isolating muscles (as with Phil's photo) but still cooking everything together is going to make a great deal of difference, other than adding surface area/bark. Or am I wrong?