Reason for lowball scores - chicken

[Ford]

There's been a lot of talk about lowball scores by a judge since the new score sheets. There is some justification for a judge just scoring everything low. But there's lots of reasons for a judge to get a different experience. I'll post this for each of the 4 meats.

Just post 1 reason for taste and/or tenderness.

Small pocket of fat not properly trimmed out and judge bites just that spot. That can be close to a spit experience.

[bbq.tom]

Also, I was at a table where five of us judges got good chicken thighs and the judge beside me got a drastically undercooked thigh (RED juices).

[swamprb]

"overly sauced"

[TooSaucedToPork]

How does "overly sauced" as a description effect taste and tenderness? I read that as appearance.

I'm not trying to get on anybody, but that is not a descriptive reason...
Now if, as a judge, you said..."the sauce in places was thicker than others, detracting from the overall taste of the meat"

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by TooSaucedToPork

How does "overly sauced" as a description effect taste and tenderness? I read that as appearance.

I'm not trying to get on anybody, but that is not a descriptive reason...
Now if, as a judge, you said..."the sauce in places was thicker than others, detracting from the overall taste of the meat"

Over-sauced could also mean that the flavor of the sauce completely drowned out the flavor of the meat. That would be Taste category.

[ITBFQ]

For tenderness - overcooked. Chicken is mushy.

[TooSaucedToPork]

Originally Posted by bbq.tom

Over-sauced could also mean that the flavor of the sauce completely drowned out the flavor of the meat. That would be Taste category.

Correct...which is what I said when I spelled it out and didn't make it a generalized term.

If I, as a cook, got a comment card that simply states "over sauced" what does that mean...

Did I put too much sauced on detracting from appearance?
Did the Taste of my sauce drown out the meat?
Did the sauced clumping up cause a taste problem?

Descriptive terms clearly outlining the problem are needed. If judges want better BBQ, they need to communicate problems to us clearly, in the most descriptive terms possible...

Understanding is all about communication

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by TooSaucedToPork

Correct...which is what I said when I spelled it out and didn't make it a generalized term.

If I, as a cook, got a comment card that simply states "over sauced" what does that mean...

Did I put too much sauced on detracting from appearance?
Did the Taste of my sauce drown out the meat?
Did the sauced clumping up cause a taste problem?

Descriptive terms clearly outlining the problem are needed. If judges want better BBQ, they need to communicate problems to us clearly, in the most descriptive terms possible...

Understanding is all about communication

I beleive the new comment cards have "over sauced" only as a box in the Appearance category. It can be written in for other purposes, but like you stated, I hope that a more descriptive term would be used.


At some point in the future, I would hope that KCBS will adopt a "comment required" on EVERY score. That would not only improve judges (having to be accountable for each score with a reason) as well as improve cooks (knowing exactly why each judge gave each score). It would take a bit longer, but would weed out the judges that are just there for fun (read - NOT serious), and I'm sure cook teams wouldn't mind 1 hour between turn-ins. Also, BAN coolers!

[ITBFQ]

Originally Posted by bbq.tom

Also, BAN coolers!

This will go a long way weeding out "those who are there to get fed" from those of us that take it seriously. I heard one husband and wife duo (judging at different tables) say to each other after judging "We are going to eat good this weekend!" I've judged next to the guy twice now, and I can almost guarantee that his scores are dropped every single time. No. More. Leftovers. Period.

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by ITBFQ

This will go a long way weeding out "those who are there to get fed" from those of us that take it seriously. I heard one husband and wife duo (judging at different tables) say to each other after judging "We are going to eat good this weekend!" I've judged next to the guy twice now, and I can almost guarantee that his scores are dropped every single time. No. More. Leftovers. Period.

I hate to hijack this thread onto coolers, but you are right, there is just something about watching a judge be more interested in putting the leftovers from their judging plate into a cooler than concentrating on giving a good score. I'm not saying that every judge that packs a cooler isn't in it for the right reason, but everyone knows that it only takes a couple to ruin it for the rest of us. I used to be a "take home the leftovers" judge, but once I knew that cooks looked at cooler judges as "only in it to get fed and take food home", I changed and haven't taken anything home in a couple years. Banning coolers would go a long way to closing the chasm between cooks and judges. IMHO

[BaggerBill]

Originally Posted by bbq.tom

I hate to hijack this thread onto coolers, but you are right, there is just something about watching a judge be more interested in putting the leftovers from their judging plate into a cooler than concentrating on giving a good score. I'm not saying that every judge that packs a cooler isn't in it for the right reason, but everyone knows that it only takes a couple to ruin it for the rest of us. I used to be a "take home the leftovers" judge, but once I knew that cooks looked at cooler judges as "only in it to get fed and take food home", I changed and haven't taken anything home in a couple years. Banning coolers would go a long way to closing the chasm between cooks and judges. IMHO

I hate to be hijack this thread as well, but as a new competitor (I'm getting ready to enter my 3rd comp next week), could you explain this "cooler" thing? Are you saying that a judge take his/her bite of the meat and puts the rest in a cooler to take home? I've never paid attention to the judges tent. Anything beyond where I turn in my box is something I never paid any mind to, but you got me curious about this....thanks!

[BMerrill]

Ban coolers in the judges area.
Have each team make a goody bag for a judge.
After judging, the judge pulls a team name from the hat and visits the team where his goody bag is waiting.

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by BaggerBill

I hate to be hijack this thread as well, but as a new competitor (I'm getting ready to enter my 3rd comp next week), could you explain this "cooler" thing? Are you saying that a judge take his/her bite of the meat and puts the rest in a cooler to take home? I've never paid attention to the judges tent. Anything beyond where I turn in my box is something I never paid any mind to, but you got me curious about this....thanks!

Yes, judges are often allowed to take home the samples on their plate after judging. Not always, but often. The hope is that ALL judges take at least one good sized bite and you will find that many judges take at least two bites of each entry to fairly judge the meat. This topic has been discussed MANY times on this forum.

[bbq.tom]

Originally Posted by BMerrill

Ban coolers in the judges area.
Have each team make a goody bag for a judge.
After judging, the judge pulls a team name from the hat and visits the team where his goody bag is waiting.

Hey Billy? with Holy Smoke BBQ team? I was the nuisance in Salisbury for you and Gordon, both Friday evening and Saturday after judging!

Anyway, I totally agree that this would be a great idea for not only keeping the judges from worrying about the meat on their plate going in a cooler, but would also get judges and teams together to hopefully talk and build a better relationship.

[McEvoy AZ]

How about too salty.