I Warm Brine Chicken... Call the Authorities

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

I warm my 1/2 gallon of salt / sugar / spice brine to a boil. Then let cool for a couple hours. Then I add the other 1/2 gallon of cool water, and throw the cold Chix in. warm room temp brine after the chicken cools it. The Chix is left on the counter for 3-5 hours.

Then either cooked or in the fridge for a skin dry, and cooked the next day.

Call me reckless, but that brine is less hospitable to life than Mars. No microbial growth. The warm brine penetrates faster and deeper, too.

Been doing this for a long time. 2 birds per week average.

Fwismoker · Jul 25, 2016

TedW said:
I warm my 1/2 gallon of salt / sugar / spice brine to a boil. Then let cool for a couple hours. Then I add the other 1/2 gallon of cool water, and throw the cold Chix in. warm room temp brine after the chicken cools it. The Chix is left on the counter for 3-5 hours.

Then either cooked or in the fridge for a skin dry, and cooked the next day.

Call me reckless, but that brine is less hospitable to life than Mars. No microbial growth. The warm brine penetrates faster and deeper, too.

Been doing this for a long time. 2 birds per week average.

:shock: Definitely NOT a safe practice with poultry.... No way no how. Most of the birds I get anyway are already "enhanced" brined but dry brining is something different entirely.

Chicken roulette right there. :twitch:

You should try dry brining if you haven't already.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

Nothing can grow in 1 gallon of water and 1 cup of pickling salt.

So aside from a pre-programmed "ick" factor, scientifically the chicken is sterile.

I use farm-fresh, never frozen local chickens. No injected brines when I get them.

I dry-brine beef, some pork cuts. Chicken is more porous, and the brine spices mildly flavor the meat pretty deep.

yakdung · Jul 25, 2016

Inject. The end.

toymaster · Jul 25, 2016

I've done this plenty of times. I agree with TedW. Nothing can live in a brine. Brines were around long before refrigeration and were used for preservation on foods.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

Injecting is groovy but not the same. The chicken flesh is more porous and takes the brine flavorings really well.

If I'm grilling with a rub, after the brine, I'll separate the skin from meat, get some rub under there, then on top and in the fridge it goes for a day to dry.

The meat is crazy sweet smelling the entire time.

EDIT- Just a bit of calculation here. The brine at that concentration (10% solution) is killing most everything after 30 minutes. Keeping a chic in the fridge isn't killing anything. Just slowing it.

jimstocks53 · Jul 25, 2016

I'm not aware of any toxic halophile bacteria (salt tolerant bugs) and certainly the bacterial pathogens which commonly cause chicken food poisoning are not viable in concentrated brine. But the salt water might not have access to all the nooks and crannies of the bird so there is still some (how much?) risk of leaving the bird at room temp for long periods. Even so, your experience of winning at Russian roulette has to count for something.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

jimstocks53 said:
I'm not aware of any toxic halophile bacteria (salt tolerant bugs) and certainly the bacterial pathogens which commonly cause chicken food poisoning are not viable in concentrated brine. But the salt water might not have access to all the nooks and crannies of the bird so there is still some (how much?) risk of leaving the bird at room temp for long periods. Even so, your experience of winning at Russian roulette has to count for something.

And what of the fridge with respect to the nooks and crannies? Zero effect. Growth is only slowed.

4 hours in a brine. Nooks and crannies are the least of my worries. Again, scientifically this is all a non-issue, despite the use of the word "roulette"

dadsr4 · Jul 25, 2016

The brine is not the issue. Brine doesn't penetrate that far into the meat. It's the bacteria inside the chicken that is the problem. There, it can grow quite well at room temperature.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

Bacterial contamination is a surface activity. Bacteria doesn't live within tissue, unless you see some gigantic puss cavity.

Springram · Jul 25, 2016

TedW...all of what you say can be or is true but it is like peeing into the wind. It might not have come back on you but I do not want to risk it.

Garyclaw · Jul 25, 2016

I called. They're on their way.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

Springram said:
TedW...all of what you say can be or is true but...

And there's the rub... get it... rub??? sorry

Anyway, this is much like the days when we finally learned that no one was getting sick from eating pink pork anymore. Most people still think pink pork = infectious.

Most people are still microbe-phobic

checkrd past · Jul 25, 2016

I'm with you TedW.Its good to be safe but its over kill today. Watchin a cooking show with the french chef that used to cook with Julia Child, Total old school with handling the chicken to the veggies and everything else. Gotta love it

BillN · Jul 25, 2016

I see your point and personally would not be concerned, if I try this will probably follow your example, however will put bird and brine in fridge then as time passed the warm brine penetrates, brine and bird cool down, after 3 to 5 hours will be at safe temp then remove for cook or cool storage to dry skin. I see it as a hybrid of your method. The only birds I brine are oven or direct heat cooked have not felt the need to brine indirect cooked birds. Thanks for sharing.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

BillN- You have the smoker of my dreams. Just wanted to say that.

I was impressed by some "data" collected over on AmazingRibs. The temperature of the brine relative to penetration. Warmer = more penetration, which I loved reading as it jibed with what I found as well.

I pretty much brine every bird these days. If a recipe calls for a specific brine / marinade, then I do that. Otherwise it's my go-to pickling spice brine w/ sugar

BillN · Jul 25, 2016

TedW said:
BillN- You have the smoker of my dreams. Just wanted to say that.

I was impressed by some "data" collected over on AmazingRibs. The temperature of the brine relative to penetration. Warmer = more penetration, which I loved reading as it jibed with what I found as well.

I pretty much brine every bird these days. If a recipe calls for a specific brine / marinade, then I do that. Otherwise it's my go-to pickling spice brine w/ sugar

Ted - I will have to say with the new smoker the birds I've cooked so far (using natural chicken) have been so moist and tender any moister would have been too moist. My old ECB (long gone) was a different story, birds needed help, brine and bacon barding to ensure moisture. Love the new cooker it has surpassed my expectations, will have to admit I have been lax in providing pron to the Brethren.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

I almost pulled the trigger (again) this year. A few nice emails with Chris.

Just quick curiosity- what temp / time for those birds in the LSG?

BillN · Jul 25, 2016

TedW said:
I almost pulled the trigger (again) this year. A few nice emails with Chris.

Just quick curiosity- what temp / time for those birds in the LSG?

Only had her going a few weeks now so cooking in warm temps (summer), she likes to cruise at 275 to 285 so (approximate) 1.5 hours for wings, 2 hours for thighs, 2.5 hours spatchcocked... hove not done whole bird yet. I do raise the temps up-to around 315 to 320 (add 2 big sticks) for the last 30 min to produce crispy bite-thru skin. Just have used a simple dry rub SPG and pepper flakes usually apply rub hour or so in advance and leave in fridge till cooker is ready.

TedW · Jul 25, 2016

Very interesting. Thank you Bill. That's a lower temp that I've seen used around here. Makes me want to try this on my Egg. I usually roll at 325, then open it up to crisp.

I've been brining a bird all day on the counter, as I've described earlier. With it, I'm doing a fresh Blueberry / balsamic vinegar / fresh rosemary / maple syrup chicken tonite. Spatchcocked 450+ in the egg until crispy and bronze, then brought inside, cut into pieces, added to the above sauce in then into a shallow cooking dish right under the broiler for maybe 10 more minutes.

It's a take-off of Rao's Chicken in Harlem. Same technique, different acidic sauce

I Warm Brine Chicken... Call the Authorities

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