Our Homepage | Donation to Forum Overhead | Welocme | Merchandise | Associations | Purchase Subscription | Amazon Affiliate |
|
Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
|
Thread Tools |
10-18-2005, 09:22 PM | #1 |
Banned
Join Date: 07-18-04
|
Comp Brisket - Chopped? Pulled? Sliced?
Guys,
At the Long Island judging class back in August, the Mullane's said that chopped brisket was a sign of being over cooked. At the class in October, according to smokin cracker, "Dr. Death emphasized the fact that chopped or pulled brisket indicated potentially overcooked meat" When I brought it upback in August, Jim Minon, KC Pellethead and others responded that this was not what that judges should be taught because chopped, pulled or sliced brisket is allowed by KCBS rules and that many winning teams submit chopped brisket. So what's the deal? If the master judges are teaching the new judges that anything but sliced brisket is sub-par; isn't sliced brisket now the defacto standard for comp brisket? |
|
10-18-2005, 09:44 PM | #2 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: 04-08-04
Location: Marianna, FL
Name/Nickname : Tim
|
So what's the deal? If the master judges are teaching the new judges that anything but sliced brisket is sub-par; isn't sliced brisket now the defacto standard for comp brisket?
In my limited experience--here is what I think. All of this may be right or wrong, but...? For Brisket in particular, the "Holy Grail" has traditionally been sliced, and "done to perfection". As we all know, that is a high bar and hard to achieve for most of us "mere mortals". I personally slice/chop/shred/pull to my hearts content at home. In competetion, I want sliced to be the goal and "star" and that is what we turn in. It may be supported or filled in with chopped/shredded for other reasons. But, properly prepared sliced is the best I can do--(not that we are there yet)! So, it becomes a matter of expectations and "how do we show off" for the Judges! Under the rules, sure. All are allowed. I am there to win, if possible. And, there needs to be something to seperate the "others" from the championship level cooks who can cook and present at that level. One of the many valuable lessons I learned from Ray Lampe at Arthur is "let others experiment with turn-ins". He wants to stand out with "this looks so good, I just cant wait to eat it!", or words to that effect. So, until chopped/shredded becomes "mainstream"--everyone should do what they feel is right! Maybe the "standard" will change. JMHO TIM
__________________
"Flirtin' with Disaster" BBQ Team (RETIRED)
FBA and KCBS Cook and Judge. Former owner of a WSM, a Smokey Joe, a Charbroil Commercial gasser (junk), the legendary "StudeDera", a FEC100, a Fast Eddy PG500, and Sherman the Wonder Trailer. Just sold Yoder YS640 due health New Ninja Woodfired Grill for Christmas 2023 |
|
10-18-2005, 10:08 PM | #3 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 02-16-05
Location: Sebring, Florida
|
Brisket Brownies
At the Lake City FBA contest I used a unfamiliar smoker to cook my brisket and it spiked for about 2 hrs...
Way over done ( brisket soup ). Anyway we had no slices so we cut 8ea 3" by 3" brisket brownies. We sauced them to look real nice and no crap they looked like brownies!!! The taste was great and the presentation was good. We pulled off 8th place in Brisket. Who would have thunk it. |
|
10-18-2005, 10:15 PM | #4 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 07-07-04
Location: Federal Way WA
|
I think that to teach a judge that if something is presented in a certain manor it means is overstating the facts. I as an example turn in slices but I like to add chunks of the point which is by it's nature not good product for slicing but is very flavorful. A judge can make the call if it is over cooked by trying it not because someone has told that must be the case.
__________________
Jim www.twoloosescrewsbbq.com Ole Hickory EL/EDx WSM Primos Klose couple of Ranch kettles |
|
10-19-2005, 03:14 AM | #5 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-14-05
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
|
This is my opinion right or wrong. I thought that an entry was to be judged on appearance, taste and texture. If an entry has a pleasant and appetizing appearance, tastes wonderful and has proper texture why the hell would it not score well, wether it is pulled, chopped or served as slices? I think any speculation on the judges part as to why a competitor decided to display his entry in any fashion is not in the spirit of fair judging. If the judge sticks to measuring the entry by the criteria set in the rules, there is no reason for it to score well, providing it satisfies each of the criteria. Speculation should never enter the equation on the judges part and should be frowned apon. I was talking to guy in my judging class as we were leaving and we briefly discussed how we judged some of the submissions during the class. He mentioned that he scored chicken low because he was got a drumstick (he was last and thats all that was left) and he didn't like drumsticks. I am sorry guys but people like this have no business as a judge. If you can't be objective and judge to the criteria set forth, don't judge.
__________________
Guy (Pitmaster) BBQ Team: Lawn Guyland Smokers Stupidity for Dummies …because sometimes, you just can’t dumb it down enough… |
|
10-19-2005, 07:05 AM | #6 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 08-27-05
Location: st louis, mo
|
IMHO we are supposed to judge what we are presented, as it is presented. If brisket is presented as chopped (or chunked, burnt-ends), then I think it should be judged as chopped brisket (but I will carefully evaluate mouth feel for the mushy signs of over-cooking). To assume that it is overcooked is wrong, but if it SEEMS to be overcooked, then it IS overcooked.
Until the rules are changed to require sliced brisket, the judges cannot require that the brisket be sliced. OMG - is this an example of the Judicial Activism that Harriet Meyers is being asked about??
__________________
rich the judge collecting piggy suspenders St Louis, MO Eastern Area MOFO KCBS CBJ WSM slightly modded, Weber Performer, Smokey Joe Gold, Whatever is handy |
|
10-19-2005, 07:05 AM | #7 | |
Moderator
Join Date: 12-09-04
Location: Wandering, but not lost
Name/Nickname : Captain Ron
|
Quote:
Of course, I've never been through a judging class, so my opinion may not be of value...
__________________
"Ron Rico, Boss. You can call me Captain Ron..." Naked Fatties Rock! PKGo X 2/PK360/ |
|
|
10-19-2005, 07:20 AM | #8 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 07-19-05
Location: Long Island NY
|
Very well said.
Quote:
|
|
|
10-19-2005, 07:20 AM | #9 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 02-16-05
Location: Sebring, Florida
|
Lets roll with it.
I agree with the Pollock but I think the point that we all need to realize is that this method to determine overcooked or under cooked meat is being thought at judging school. Death was very specific in the fact that thinly sliced meat would indicate undercooked meat and thicker sliced, pulled or chopped could indicate overcooked meat. Now that we all understand that and we all know how to burn a brisket lets know that we better put some good slices in the box that have good texture and fail the rubber band test. As a competition cook I took the KCBS judging class to learn a few things for myself and share them with fellow cooks/brothers so we can all turn-in a better product and have more fun. Right or wrong it obvious from these forum discussions that this method of judging brisket has been thought at other KCBS judging class as well. So we better turn in some slices with our burnt ends if we want our best chance at Grand Champion. Cracker out! |
|
10-19-2005, 12:05 PM | #10 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-13-03
Location: Clearwater, FL
|
All these insights are interesting but the fact remains that the expectation of the judges for the Brisket category is that the brisket will be sliced. The rules ALLOW chopped, shredded, etc. but the expectation is sliced. Same as when you go to a restaurant the the menu says Texas Style brisket - chopped, chunked, shredded is not the expectation - I know that if I get chopped or shredded or a fall apart chunk of meat that it'll probably be good, but it's not what I expected when I ordered.
Competitors KNOW that they CAN put other forms of brisket in the box but the KNOW if they don't have decent slices they don't have a prayer of scoring high. Like Jim and many others we use chopped or shredded brisket and burnt ends to enhance the box and give the judges more to taste and "love". If KCBS changes to "beef" as the definition like they do for "pork" then the EXPECTATION of the judge changes. Right now sliced brisket is the expectation and standard for the BRISKET category. As a judge and competitor I know and understand that. This will not change as far as I can see. The training is adequate - someone in another "judge training" thread asked if the instructors give tips -- well, the pull test is a tip for checking the brisket - not hard and fast since everyone has a different idea of what he pull should be. Same with the tip that "usually" if the team doesn't put slices in the box it's because they missed. Common sense says that if you want slices in the box and it's overdone then you'll cut thicker slices - you have too if you want slices. Same with tough brisket - slice it thinner so that you have some hope of helping it be "tender" enough to score something. The judges are hammered all throughout the class that personal likes/dislikes are to be set aside. You indeed judge based on what you're presented - don't blame the judges for the cook missing the target for the brisket!
__________________
Dave Southern Brethren BBQ Competition Team "It's all about getting paid!" - Myron Mixon "I love being hated in my hometown!" - David Hair KingFisher Gator Rotisserie cooker (RIP), WSM (RIP), Stainless 5 burner with IR gas grill (RIP), Turkey Fryer, Weber JD Commemorative grill (RIP), Masterbuilt 40" insulated ELECTRIC smoker (new heating element), Pit Boss Tailgater pellet pooper. |
|
10-19-2005, 12:33 PM | #11 | |
Grand Poobah and Site Admin
Join Date: 08-11-03
Location: Long Island, NY
Name/Nickname : Phil
|
Quote:
Now, that being said, from the cooks perspective, I would be to chicken sh*t to turn in anything but sliced.
__________________
Site Administrator and Grand PooBah CBJ with a Fuzzy Blue Hat, 18 Foot Competition Trailer, Customized Klose BYC, Custom Built Shirley built to feed our Veterans(A.K.A "Abrams"), 1 Double Barreled Lang 84, 1 Heavily Modified Bionic Bandera, 1 Custom Super Medium Stickburning Spicewine w/stoker, 2 XL BGE, 1 Mini BGE, 2 Pit Barrel Cookers, 3 WSMs, 3 Weber Kettles, an NB Hondo, A Modified Brinkman Horizontal, DCS 48" Grill, a Broilmaster P3, a Blackstone 36 and 17, a covered, pellet pooping FEC100, and our duck died. :( News Flash: "A mans worth is judged by the weight of his integrity " You know your getting older when you choose your cereal for the fiber, not the toy Smoke on KC. WWW.BBQ-BRETHREN.COM |
|
|
10-19-2005, 12:42 PM | #12 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 02-16-05
Location: Sebring, Florida
|
Yeh like he said
|
|
10-19-2005, 12:51 PM | #13 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-13-03
Location: Clearwater, FL
|
OK, I give up.
Opinions are like *******s - and each of us has one (some full body) but the reality is that if you don't turnin sliced brisket you are cutting your throat. You can blame the rules, blame the judges, blame KCBS but the fact remains that sliced brisket is what's expected in a turnin box. If you like tilting at windmills then go ahead and turn in chopped/pulled/chunked brisket. I just want to be in the same contest - I'm guaranteed a higher placing. We've all had less than perfect brisket and turned in what we could. But bottom line is if you didn't cook a sliceable brisket you farked up. And that's my *******, I mean opinion!
__________________
Dave Southern Brethren BBQ Competition Team "It's all about getting paid!" - Myron Mixon "I love being hated in my hometown!" - David Hair KingFisher Gator Rotisserie cooker (RIP), WSM (RIP), Stainless 5 burner with IR gas grill (RIP), Turkey Fryer, Weber JD Commemorative grill (RIP), Masterbuilt 40" insulated ELECTRIC smoker (new heating element), Pit Boss Tailgater pellet pooper. |
|
10-19-2005, 03:15 PM | #14 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 09-13-04
Location: Columbia Missouri
|
It's almost like turning in cornish hen in the chicken category. I would have a hard time coming to grips with doing that.
We always send up sliced. If it works for you-----just do it!! Not a gambler like some.
__________________
The "Sauce Whisperer" SPICEWINE IRONWORKS Award Winning Smokers, Sauces and Spices Columbia Missouri www.spicewineironworks.com PERFECT 180 CHICKEN 2011 1ST. PLACE PORK AMERICAN ROYAL (OPEN) 2012 PERFECT SCORE180 IN RIBS 2013 BEST SAUCE IN THE WORLD ( BLUE COLLAR ) AMERICAN ROYAL 2009 & 2017 BEST RUB IN THE WORLD ( HEFFER DUST ) AMERICAN ROYAL 2007 MOFO Chapter CISC Master BBQ Chef |
|
10-19-2005, 05:53 PM | #15 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 08-27-05
Location: st louis, mo
|
If you turn in brisket that isn't sliced, I'll rate it as I feel that it deserves, but since Death says it is not properly cooked, many other judges will rate it down.
DON'T take the risk!
__________________
rich the judge collecting piggy suspenders St Louis, MO Eastern Area MOFO KCBS CBJ WSM slightly modded, Weber Performer, Smokey Joe Gold, Whatever is handy |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Brisket Sandwich- Chopped or Sliced? | Trucky1008 | Catering, Food Handling and Awareness | 37 | 06-03-2011 01:43 AM |
Chopped/Sliced Brisket | BFoster | Q-talk | 25 | 07-30-2008 10:43 PM |
pulled vs chopped | big blue bbq | Q-talk | 10 | 06-27-2008 02:37 AM |
Sliced or Chopped Brisket for Competition | Hawgsnheifers | Competition BBQ | 9 | 04-07-2007 10:04 AM |
temps for sliced/chopped vs. pulled | SmokeyBear | Q-talk | 2 | 02-12-2007 08:49 AM |
Thread Tools | |
|
|