Uncooked, Raw Meat?

GrillBillie_D · Mar 30, 2014

Have you ever been "accused" of cooking Ribs in a KCBS event and had a judge respond to you with the comment of "uncooked, raw meat" and gave you a 2 on taste and 2 on tenderness?

Well, guess what? In our very first KCBS event, we did! What do we win?

Somehow, after smoking our ribs for 6 hours, then turning in 6 bones from the same rack, we managed to make 5 of the 6 turn out pretty good....but like 4 outta 5 dentists who recommend Trident, well....I think we found that 5th dentist who is also a KCBS judge and doesn't like gum....or ribs!

Do you know how incredibly hard it is to cook a single rack of ribs for 6 hours and to leave one single rib for that one Dentist who doesn't like Trident? Well, in our first KCBS event, we have conquered that feat!

Here are our scores:
887 866, 822, 988, 887, 879

I will upload a picture of the ribs we turned in the box soon......I can't wait to find Waldo...I mean that "uncooked, raw meat" rib. Do you know how hard it is to cut a raw rib to fit in with the rest of the rack).

BrotherInArms · Mar 30, 2014

That sounds insane. When you figure out how you managed to leave one rib out of whole rack make a phone call to Ripley's Believe It Or Not. Look forward to seeing the picture

rtboswell · Mar 30, 2014

The good news is that judges score was dropped. The bad news is that judge was allowed to judge and has no clue on what they were looking for in the 'que.

What was that judges average score for the day?

Burnt at Both Endz · Mar 30, 2014

First off, congrats on the pork call in your 1st comp, now on to the rib scores.....

This is just an educated guess, but your smoker is cooking hotter on one end then the other. You can see it in your tenderness scores. 9.8.7.7.6.2

While we can blame the judge, at least he in his lame way, has given you THE direction to go.

MikeJ65 · Mar 30, 2014

I had a 922 on chicken last year. Finished 3rd on the table with scores including 999, 999, and 998. However, chicken is a bit different since it is easier to get some redness along the bone, even if it is at temp.

Were the ribs frozen? It is possible that one end thawed in water in the cooler and the other end was in air and didn't thaw as well.

In any case, the other tenderness scores show inconsistency. Ribs are probably the easiest to score for tenderness. You usually won't get 6's and 7's if the meat pulls cleanly from the bone (unless if completely falls off). It is possible that there was some meat against the bone that only made it to 150 or 155 and didn't have a fully cooked texture.

The bottom line is to not let it bother you. Just use this information to be more consistent in the future.

BigBellyBBQ · Mar 30, 2014

Burnt at Both Endz said:
First off, congrats on the pork call in your 1st comp, now on to the rib scores.....

This is just an educated guess, but your smoker is cooking hotter on one end then the other. You can see it in your tenderness scores. 9.8.7.7.6.2

While we can blame the judge, at least he in his lame way, has given you THE direction to go.

How did you conclude the temp in the pit? What if the tough one was from the middle of the rack?

Cayman1 · Mar 30, 2014

They are now tracking the judges score at each event so I expect someone will talk to that judge if it is a consistent score from them, but judging is very subjective. We did a practice contest yesterday with CBJs and on my ribs, the comments from one rib judge was undercooked while the others said spot on. Judges are just people with differing opinions. It happens a lot. I know all competitors would like for it not to happen and KCBS is trying weed out the "rogue" judges with the new tracking system but sometimes they just don't like your product, it is that simple. Can't please everyone all the time.

Don't let it get to you. Learn what you can from it and move one. We used to agonize over every score from every judge and that will drive you nuts chasing your tail.

Burnt at Both Endz · Mar 30, 2014

BigBellyBBQ said:
How did you conclude the temp in the pit? What if the tough one was from the middle of the rack?

I guess it was from my experience as a rib cook.

Ribs normally cook pretty even in a pit, unless you have a tapper rib or your pit is hotter at one end.:thumb:

rookiedad · Mar 30, 2014

what was the percetage of certified judges? could it have been this judge was so inexperienced that they were looking at the smoke ring? to the untrained eye, all that red meat in there can be cause for concern.

MikeJ65 · Mar 30, 2014

rookiedad said:
what was the percetage of certified judges? could it have been this judge was so inexperienced that they were looking at the smoke ring? to the untrained eye, all that red meat in there can be cause for concern.

It would have been 100%. You need to be a CBJ to sign up as a Sam's judge.

thirdeye · Mar 30, 2014

MikeJ65 said:
I had a 922 on chicken last year. Finished 3rd on the table with scores including 999, 999, and 998. However, chicken is a bit different since it is easier to get some redness along the bone, even if it is at temp.

Right.... and,.... your 6 pieces of chicken came from a minimum of 3 birds and a maximum of 6 birds. I've been at tables where one thigh was a complete dud.. In fact last year I had a thigh that was mushy and had some kind of substance that looked like snot in it. Other judges scored theirs with 8's and 9's. I gave mine 4's for taste and tenderness... the Table Captain thought that was generous.

MikeJ65 · Mar 30, 2014

thirdeye said:
Right.... and,.... your 6 pieces of chicken came from a minimum of 3 birds and a maximum of 6 birds. I've been at tables where one thigh was a complete dud.. In fact last year I had a thigh that was mushy and had some kind of substance that looked like snot in it. Other judges scored theirs with 8's and 9's. I gave mine 4's for taste and tenderness... the Table Captain thought that was generous.

The point that I was trying to make was that it doesn't matter if it was raw or not. I'm 100% certain that my chicken was done. However, if the judge sees a blood line and interprets that as under cooked you have lost that judge. Don't worry about whether it was to USDA temps or not, if you get 2's you need change something. For me, it was cutting along the bone to make sure that the blood line is eliminated.

GrillBillie_D · Mar 30, 2014

Thanks for all of your responses. This was a Sams club event that uses 100% CBJ.

I do agree the scores could point to an inconsistent grill temp or just be inconsistent people with different likes/dislikes.

Either way, we just could not figure out how he/she felt it was raw. Chewy, too tender, dry, mushy....something...but raw? I don't buy that.

Take a look:

GrillBillie_D · Mar 30, 2014

Burnt at Both Endz said:
First off, congrats on the pork call in your 1st comp, now on to the rib scores.....

This is just an educated guess, but your smoker is cooking hotter on one end then the other. You can see it in your tenderness scores. 9.8.7.7.6.2

While we can blame the judge, at least he in his lame way, has given you THE direction to go.

Thanks!! We knew we were entering a stacked field of competitors. Getting a call was a huge confidence booster. Being our first 4 meat contest, we learned so much. No matter how prepared you think you are, you can never simulate the real thing. The pouring rain from 8AM on was a bit of a challenge but it was the same for everybody.

Can't wait to try again!

One interesting thing I found from reviewing the scores....the top 5 in ribs all came from the same table. Sounded strange to me. From looking at all the scores, it seems it was a hot table for all meats. I've heard of the table of death but it almost looked like it was 4 cold tables and one hot table. That one table had 1-2 in chicken, 1-2-3-4-5 in ribs, 3rd in pork, 3-4 in brisket. And of course, none of our 4 entries hit that table!! :doh:

thirdeye · Mar 30, 2014

MikeJ65 said:
The point that I was trying to make was that it doesn't matter if it was raw or not. I'm 100% certain that my chicken was done. However, if the judge sees a blood line and interprets that as under cooked you have lost that judge. Don't worry about whether it was to USDA temps or not, if you get 2's you need change something. For me, it was cutting along the bone to make sure that the blood line is eliminated.

I agree a 2 is out of line. But, did the comment card say bloody or did it say raw? What I was getting at was you could have had an oddball piece, from an oddball bird,... and independent of whatever you did.... that one piece finished up with a bad texture (like maybe a bite that was springy and chewy, or one that was sticky and mushy) and that judge called it raw verses "under-cooked", or "chewy texture", etc.).

My story of getting a bad snotty thigh was just an example that happened to me.

landarc · Mar 30, 2014

Hard to say...sometimes things get weird. That is why they drop one score. I did similar with chicken, of course, that is not ribs. The best thing is to figure something went awry a bit, and work on texture, that box looks great though. Easy to see 9's in appearnace

MikeJ65 · Mar 30, 2014

thirdeye said:
I agree a 2 is out of line. But, did the comment card say bloody or did it say raw? What I was getting at was you could have had an oddball piece, from an oddball bird,... and independent of whatever you did.... that one piece finished up with a bad texture (like maybe a bite that was springy and chewy, or one that was sticky and mushy) and that judge called it raw verses "under-cooked", or "chewy texture", etc.).

My story of getting a bad snotty thigh was just an example that happened to me.

No comment card. Normally that would be inexcusable, but I think it was while they had comments suspended with the implementation of KCBS Score.

MikeJ65 · Mar 30, 2014

GrillBillie_D said:
Thanks!! We knew we were entering a stacked field of competitors. Getting a call was a huge confidence booster. Being our first 4 meat contest, we learned so much. No matter how prepared you think you are, you can never simulate the real thing. The pouring rain from 8AM on was a bit of a challenge but it was the same for everybody.

Can't wait to try again!

One interesting thing I found from reviewing the scores....the top 5 in ribs all came from the same table. Sounded strange to me. From looking at all the scores, it seems it was a hot table for all meats. I've heard of the table of death but it almost looked like it was 4 cold tables and one hot table. That one table had 1-2 in chicken, 1-2-3-4-5 in ribs, 3rd in pork, 3-4 in brisket. And of course, none of our 4 entries hit that table!! :doh:

Top five from one table seems out of line, especially when 6th was almost 5 full points behind. I always put more stock in where I finished at the table and who else was on that table.

cdkeach · Mar 30, 2014

I think in acknowledging that this was a Sam's Club contest you answered your own question.

Judges (certified KCBS, of course) are accepted based on who signs up first. No attention is paid to their experience.

We had a similar experience with a nutty judge at a Sam's Club event. After questioning the rep, who was not a regular in the region, we were told "sorry...I questioned the judge but can't require him to fill out a comment card".

Take it for what it's worth and move one. Don't beat yourself up.

LongTong · Mar 30, 2014

Attached firmly

As an MCBJ, I've had or seen at my table an instance of an undercooked rib entry when all the others from the same box were fine. It happened to my again a week ago. My bite was fairly chewy and need a good tug to get the bite free. Looking at my bite mark, nothing came off the bone at all. I gave 5 and 5 on T and T. Other judges had great ribs from the same entry. It does happen so quit whining and focus your energy on perfecting your ribs!

Uncooked, Raw Meat?

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