retired trucker
is Blowin Smoke!
Wow, that is some interesting cook Boshizzle. Excellent looking brisket. I am bookmarking this thread for further use. Can't wait to try it out!
BlackHawk Brisket Version 1.0 - The Details
- Thread starter Boshizzle
- Start date
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- Tags
- bark brisket hnf hot and fast
Pyrotech
Full Fledged Farker
Very interesting about the baking soda. I have been using it in my rub as a free flow agent. I never considered it was working with the brown sugar to get that nice bark that I get on my pork butts.
Now I am going to have to find a food chemist, I have several questions.
Now I am going to have to find a food chemist, I have several questions.
bigabyte
somebody shut me the fark up.
Well fark me!:shock:
Why didn't I see this before I rubbed my brisket?:doh:
Why didn't I see this before I rubbed my brisket?:doh:
BRBBQ
Babbling Farker
looks good for sure
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
pH ValueH+ Concentration Relative to Pure Water
10 000 000 battery acid
1 000 000 sulfuric acid
100 000 lemon juice, vinegar
10 000 orange juice, soda
1 000 tomato juice, acid rain
100 black coffee, bananas
10 urine, milk
1 pure water
0.1sea water, eggs
0.01baking soda
0.000 1 ammonia solution
0.000 01 soapy water
0.000 001 bleach, oven cleaner
0.000 000 1 liquid drain cleaner
The pH Scale: Some Examples
10 000 000 battery acid
1 000 000 sulfuric acid
100 000 lemon juice, vinegar
10 000 orange juice, soda
1 000 tomato juice, acid rain
100 black coffee, bananas
10 urine, milk
1 pure water
0.1sea water, eggs
0.01baking soda
0.000 1 ammonia solution
0.000 01 soapy water
0.000 001 bleach, oven cleaner
0.000 000 1 liquid drain cleaner
The pH Scale: Some Examples
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
First let me temper what I am about to do by saying Boshizzle is doing excellent work and the pictures are awsome and the bark is excellent.
I have a few things to say... One is, please, whoever is reading this, do not get the impression that the baking soda is the trick. Look at where it is on the scale... whether you think raising or lowering the PH is the key... look at Baking soda on the scale... it's nearly neutral.
I will respond fully in a moment.
I have a few things to say... One is, please, whoever is reading this, do not get the impression that the baking soda is the trick. Look at where it is on the scale... whether you think raising or lowering the PH is the key... look at Baking soda on the scale... it's nearly neutral.
I will respond fully in a moment.
Badgeman
Knows what a fatty is.
Yeah, the photos and technique are truly inspiring! Thanks for posting this.
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
Second, as the true arbitor of all this Hot and Fast nonsense, let me mention my credentials. No, I didn't invent it just seemed to revived it... and no that does not mean that I mentioned it first online... just made videos and commentary that made it a popular thing to try and some like it... I also erased the stigma that Low and Slow is the ONLY way and that Hot and Fast would make a leathery, non-traditional BBQ. I will warn you about thinking that EITHER Boshizzle's and I's method is the best way to make a bark. Lockhart, Tyler, Elgin have been making briskets for in some cases 90 years with no sugars - or lemon, or acidic or alkaline additives of any kind. Although if you look at Salt - its higher a bit than baking soda.
So that being said... let me say that the quote
"The biggest problem with hot and fast brisket is usually the bark. The bark just doesn't measure up to the bark of a brisket that is cooked low and slow. So, this recipe is my attempt to rectify that situation," is a bit bothersome
HOWEVER..... NOW THAT I THINK BACK TO WHEN I STARTED THIS WHOLE THING..... IT WAS 100 PERCENT TRUE!!!!!!
Bet you thought I was going to knock that.. NO! It took me 2 days and three whole briskets to fix the matter. BUT my process address it, without the added sugar though. I can make a solid argument that the baking soda matters little. If the recipe comes from our heritage I can explain why its there if asked but I won't right now.
I have been making Briskets with bark perfection for so long I forgot my struggles in getting around this little problem... and it is a little problem... or big one if you refuse to follow a proven method and go your own way.
Drying off the brisket... good tip, mostly because he is wiping off liquid that do not contribute to the bark to replace them with liquids that will. The peanut oil? No, not the key, any oil will do.
BUT, in his case the slathering of sugars and molasses in a liquid form (meaning that he makes a sort of gel) is a good key to this kind of bark and one I have done before. I used sir duke and molasses once with good results.... the base of sir duke is vinegar and look on the scale were it is?
So why is MY bark so stellar? Look where coffee, lemon and vinegar is on the scale. What goes on my meat in the end? Lemon Pepper. Also, many Texas cooks use Sour Salt or Citric Acids on their rubs... why... increases the acidity (of what you are putting it on), which in my opinion, releases acidic proteins in the meat to a gooey residue on the outside. But there is a trick of terminology. The things we think of as acidic, Battery Acid, Lemon Juice, Vinegar... are all actually ALKALINE. Remember, pure water has a neutral pH of 7. - pH values lower than 7 are acidic, and pH values higher than 7 are alkaline (basic).
The reason why all this is confusing is because we FORGET what we are doing. We add for instance "lemon juice" to increase the acidity of what it is we are trying to make more acidic. There is an exchange in hydrogen atoms... thus... we use an alkaline product to raise the PH of the meat. That being said, look at Baking soda on the scale... it is going to have little affect no matter what you use.
In addition, although some people may like the flavor profile of the "Blackhawk Method" (which was used on probably beef quarters at least as Walter Jetton would be really the first to use briskets once they became more readily available after WWII - all the Lockhart places never used Brisker originally), and since the Blackhawk Method may indeed be more popular than my "Tri Level Method," due to the amount of people that prefer the sugar profile (KCBS, a newcomers to beef brisket - meaning areas that never had it as a category 20 years ago) we can consider it a SECOND solution to the Hot and Fast bark debacle... or... the first, if this Blackhawk person did it in the 1800s.
However, once again, the secret (if you want to call it that) to my success in the Hot and Fast "Tri-Level" style is the lemon and the salt... the fuse of the pepper, and of course, not wrapping the damn thing until you have a real (not fake) bark that is the result of the Mailliard Reaction on the meat fibers and not the rubb itself. Boshizzle's method takes all the elements of the benifits of sugars without the burned result of the sugars.... meaning the sugars are soaked into the meat and the meat is affected - instead of sugar being affected.
Also, gear is a concern. I have cooked 50 - 100 briskets in once place at one time. This is vastly different that cooking one in my Kettle. There have been a few briskets I cooked in my Kettle that I WISH felt the foil. They burned up. So I am not knocking Jizzles use of foil either.
So that being said... let me say that the quote
"The biggest problem with hot and fast brisket is usually the bark. The bark just doesn't measure up to the bark of a brisket that is cooked low and slow. So, this recipe is my attempt to rectify that situation," is a bit bothersome
HOWEVER..... NOW THAT I THINK BACK TO WHEN I STARTED THIS WHOLE THING..... IT WAS 100 PERCENT TRUE!!!!!!
Bet you thought I was going to knock that.. NO! It took me 2 days and three whole briskets to fix the matter. BUT my process address it, without the added sugar though. I can make a solid argument that the baking soda matters little. If the recipe comes from our heritage I can explain why its there if asked but I won't right now.
I have been making Briskets with bark perfection for so long I forgot my struggles in getting around this little problem... and it is a little problem... or big one if you refuse to follow a proven method and go your own way.
Drying off the brisket... good tip, mostly because he is wiping off liquid that do not contribute to the bark to replace them with liquids that will. The peanut oil? No, not the key, any oil will do.
BUT, in his case the slathering of sugars and molasses in a liquid form (meaning that he makes a sort of gel) is a good key to this kind of bark and one I have done before. I used sir duke and molasses once with good results.... the base of sir duke is vinegar and look on the scale were it is?
So why is MY bark so stellar? Look where coffee, lemon and vinegar is on the scale. What goes on my meat in the end? Lemon Pepper. Also, many Texas cooks use Sour Salt or Citric Acids on their rubs... why... increases the acidity (of what you are putting it on), which in my opinion, releases acidic proteins in the meat to a gooey residue on the outside. But there is a trick of terminology. The things we think of as acidic, Battery Acid, Lemon Juice, Vinegar... are all actually ALKALINE. Remember, pure water has a neutral pH of 7. - pH values lower than 7 are acidic, and pH values higher than 7 are alkaline (basic).
The reason why all this is confusing is because we FORGET what we are doing. We add for instance "lemon juice" to increase the acidity of what it is we are trying to make more acidic. There is an exchange in hydrogen atoms... thus... we use an alkaline product to raise the PH of the meat. That being said, look at Baking soda on the scale... it is going to have little affect no matter what you use.
In addition, although some people may like the flavor profile of the "Blackhawk Method" (which was used on probably beef quarters at least as Walter Jetton would be really the first to use briskets once they became more readily available after WWII - all the Lockhart places never used Brisker originally), and since the Blackhawk Method may indeed be more popular than my "Tri Level Method," due to the amount of people that prefer the sugar profile (KCBS, a newcomers to beef brisket - meaning areas that never had it as a category 20 years ago) we can consider it a SECOND solution to the Hot and Fast bark debacle... or... the first, if this Blackhawk person did it in the 1800s.
However, once again, the secret (if you want to call it that) to my success in the Hot and Fast "Tri-Level" style is the lemon and the salt... the fuse of the pepper, and of course, not wrapping the damn thing until you have a real (not fake) bark that is the result of the Mailliard Reaction on the meat fibers and not the rubb itself. Boshizzle's method takes all the elements of the benifits of sugars without the burned result of the sugars.... meaning the sugars are soaked into the meat and the meat is affected - instead of sugar being affected.
Also, gear is a concern. I have cooked 50 - 100 briskets in once place at one time. This is vastly different that cooking one in my Kettle. There have been a few briskets I cooked in my Kettle that I WISH felt the foil. They burned up. So I am not knocking Jizzles use of foil either.
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grill 'em all
Full Fledged Farker
It looks totally awesome from my chair..Great great great lookin brisket..
F
fnnm358
Guest
Nothing wrong with what's posted
That brisket looks Pharkin delicious
I love that bark
Thanks for sharing
Sent from my LG-LG855 using Tapatalk 2
That brisket looks Pharkin delicious
I love that bark
Thanks for sharing
Sent from my LG-LG855 using Tapatalk 2
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
As you ponder on what makes a good brisket, when you consider all of the recipes you have seen, (THE REALLY OLD ONES) - notice how many talk of using coke, dr. pepper, juices of various kinds, coffee, even tomato....
I hear sodas, items with a vinegar base (mustards, worchestershire) and coffee quite a lot.
I hear sodas, items with a vinegar base (mustards, worchestershire) and coffee quite a lot.
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
One last thing... I love Boshizzle and think he is a true visionary. I love his work and will be trying this brisket as soon as my credit is approved so I can get a brisket at the store. Please, do not even start thinking I am disrespecting my friend or his work... I pretty much have endorsed it and given reasons why it obviously works and the only problem I have is the assumption by some, NOT him, that baking soda is what is making his brisket so awesome.
So please... I know he will not think I am knocking him... so please don't let anybody else think that. He is a great treasure to the BBQ arts!
So please... I know he will not think I am knocking him... so please don't let anybody else think that. He is a great treasure to the BBQ arts!
Boshizzle
somebody shut me the fark up.
I appreciate the discussion, brethren. I have used this process before without the baking soda and had good results too. I think the high heat, drying the surface well, oil, molasses and the way the surface of the brisket is oriented to prevent the juices from pooling are the most important parts of the process. And if you can adjust the PH of the meat's surface, that helps too. I haven't experiemented with varying amounts of the baking soda, so that's something that needs to be done.
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Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
I want to make a mention about New Bransfels Smokehouse Jerky and your process for a moment.
One of the things about good jerky is that taste on the outside. The bark...
The Molasses and sugar glaze you have going on there is one of my favorite flavors in the world. I hate molasses profile in sauce beyond its balanced form in brown sugar but love it on meat.
That dang picture of the meat slathered in that glaze you got going on... My God.... that is so bedrock to traditional smoked meats I can't talk any further.
Now a moment about Baking soda. The reaction of baking soda and an acid or protein, produce a salt and a carbonic acid (which I think thus dissapates in the air as C02). Saleratus (spelling) was used to freshen meats, fish etc or also as a preventative measure to spoliage. As we all know, beef spoils from the outside in. With no refrigeration, meat would begins to spoil rather quickly. Typically you would cut off the rancid parts and after the 1840's, this stuff became more readily available in packaged form. People used this for everything. It was a great, non toxic product to use to brush teeth, wash you arsehole, clean the dishes, whiten china, and use to cook with.
One of the things I think is important about cooking with tradition is making sure you are as close to the ingredients as possible. One of the biggest reasons why my texas sheath cake is a shiznit is because I use IMPERIAL Margerine, and Coffee. That brand of cheap margerine os as close to OLEO as possible. Of course if I dial back to straight lard and burned butter and strong coffee then you taste how the trail hands made it.
Baking soda was used in damn near every meat on the outside to postpone inevitable spoiling until it was ready to use... not to increase bark. However, if it ended up making a good bark it might be because it would allow for the meat to sit longer and dry (increase in exterior protein extraction). We tend to forget this step... drying off or patting off meat.
So thats my little discourse on baking soda.
MilitantSquatter
Moderator
all this discussion of baking soda and ph levels and it's role in Malliard reaction, have me wondering if the baking soda is doing something else..
tenderizing... I know Asian cooking sometimes uses baking soda on their meats to tenderize.. it can help create a crispier texture on thin cuts.. but at the same time provides a different texture to the meat...
Now, with a big cut like a brisket, a few sprinkles will not penetrate deeply enough to affect the whole packer, but it could do enough to influence the surface/bark... especially if not washing off the applied baking soda before the other stuff.
Of course, maybe it's some type of leavening affect with sugars in the carbohydrates...
or maybe the saponification effect of the fats and a base like baking soda... but then we'd have a soap and the brisket doesn't look like a soap.
My head is hurting...
tenderizing... I know Asian cooking sometimes uses baking soda on their meats to tenderize.. it can help create a crispier texture on thin cuts.. but at the same time provides a different texture to the meat...
Now, with a big cut like a brisket, a few sprinkles will not penetrate deeply enough to affect the whole packer, but it could do enough to influence the surface/bark... especially if not washing off the applied baking soda before the other stuff.
Of course, maybe it's some type of leavening affect with sugars in the carbohydrates...
or maybe the saponification effect of the fats and a base like baking soda... but then we'd have a soap and the brisket doesn't look like a soap.
My head is hurting...
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T-Man
is one Smokin' Farker
As far as coffee being used in a rub , I like dizzy pig red eye express . With some coarse ground pepper on top... It rocks...
bigabyte
somebody shut me the fark up.
I'm going to go with saponification. That way the next time someone tells me to wash my mouth out with soap I will just eat brisket.
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
Pitmaster T
Babbling Farker
Crap Pit T... Once again I can't keep up with you...can you tell us simple folk that in common terms? You're not speaking to your Mensa buddies....
I can explain it better if I know what you do. I can draw parallels to whatever subject you do know. When I was Barbefunkoramaque I used to use hot sexy cousins and poozle in general to get the point across but retired that a while back. Sure would be of good use here though.
