Texture or so called smoke flavor? : Poll

[DaveAlvarado]

Originally Posted by Brew n Que

Maillard and carmelization are not present in slow-cooked meats, as they are a product of high heats.

Completely false.

Ever seen a biscuit test in a smoker? Maillard reaction.

It happens *faster* at higher heats, but it still happens in a smoker.

[Fwismoker]

Originally Posted by Brew n Que

I think the two are completely intertwined. The combination of smoke, meat, fat, salt, and spices combine to create the flavor and texture of the bark, which is consequently where most of the flavor in BBQ lies. Maillard and carmelization are not present in slow-cooked meats, as they are a product of high heats.

Edit: That being said, I would choose a piece of meat with a great bark, but maybe a bit deficient on the smoke flavor, over a subpar bark with good smoke flavor.

Yup...and better than over smoked subpar bark.

[Fwismoker]

Originally Posted by DaveAlvarado

Completely false.

Ever seen a biscuit test in a smoker? Maillard reaction.

It happens *faster* at higher heats, but it still happens in a smoker.

True...just faster and more pronounced. Basically better at higher temps.

[sparctek]

To me both are equally important. Texture to me is how tender and moist the meat is. I don't want a tough dry piece of meat. I can deal with it being a little over cooked, but don't like dry crumbly meat.
I prefer a good amount of sweet, clean, wood smoke. Charcoal and chips/chunks has a different taste to me.

The majority of times I've heard people complain of too much smoke, to me the taste was just plain dirty smoke.

[Brew n Que]

Originally Posted by DaveAlvarado

Completely false.

Ever seen a biscuit test in a smoker? Maillard reaction.

It happens *faster* at higher heats, but it still happens in a smoker.

My bad, you're correct. I thought the floor for Maillard was 285, but it turns out that it just is most pronounced above that temp.

Caramelization will depend on what sugar you use, but fructose (half of what table sugar is) will carmelize at 230. Most other sugars don't start caramelizing until 320. So, in the olden days of 225 being the ideal temp, you would get no caramelization. These days, with hot and fast, you will likely be caramelizing just the fructose portion of the sugar.

[Mikhail]

Both are important, but I am not a fan of heavy bark. A little crispy on the outside is nice, but like with creme brulee, the crunchy should be fine and thin. Dickey's ribs for instance often have too thick a bark for my taste.

As far as texture I'm really more interested in the tenderness and succulence of the meat under the bark. Too much bark usually equals dried out meat.

[pitbossJB]

I think that you really can't have one without the other and I want both, even though I voted for bark.

[Fwismoker]

Originally Posted by pitbossJB

I think that you really can't have one without the other and I want both, even though I voted for bark.

Oh on the contrary...you can have lots of smoke and lousy or no bark, crust or maillard.

Lower temps, water smokers, spritzing will give you much less.

[pitbossJB]

I suppose that you're right, but I always seem to get both.

[Demosthenes9]

I think you are talking about two different things and one does not preclude the other. BOTH are important. If I'm going to the trouble of SMOKING something, it's because I want the SMOKE flavor. If that flavor isn't present, then it defeats the purpose of smoking in the first place.

Take something like Prime Rib or a whole tenderloin. There are any number of ways to prepare it so that it has a crispy crust from the Maillard reaction. I can sear it on a flat top or cast iron then throw it in the oven to finish. Or, I can blast the oven to 550 degrees at the beginning or end of the cook to achieve much the same thing. In either case though, while the texture will be there, the smoke won't be.

Now, if I had to choose between oven roasted prime rib/tenderloin that had a nice crispy crust but no smoke, or one that was smoked at 200 but doesn't have a nice crust, that's a hard call. If I was wanting SMOKED prime rib though, I'd have to choose the latter.

[pitbossJB]

I'm pretty sure that we're all talking about meat on a smoker, not in an oven or on a griddle.

[Fwismoker]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Now, if I had to choose between oven roasted prime rib/tenderloin that had a nice crispy crust but no smoke, or one that was smoked at 200 but doesn't have a nice crust, that's a hard call. If I was wanting SMOKED prime rib though, I'd have to choose the latter.

Yea I gotcha...also a matter of sematics of what people consider smoking. I consider true smoking the lower temps you describe...some don't

Most of the time i just want to encrust some good flavor on the outside of the meats and worry less about smoke. Non stick burning I'll still toss in some some smoking wood but i'm not worrying about having a pronounced smoke flavor.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by pitbossJB

I'm pretty sure that we're all talking about meat on a smoker, not in an oven or on a griddle.

Kind of makes my point. If the "end all, be all" was texture, it wouldn't matter what you cooked on or in. Since we are discussing using smokers, my presumption is that it's because of the desire for SMOKE.

[oldbill]

The "bark" of a brisket is a crunchy, sticky, somewhat fatty layer on the exterior of the meat and it is where 95% of the flavor of the brisket is. A thin layer of fat has rendered down to marry up with the spices in the rub and then has been kissed by a good loooooong smoke. Texture and smoke flavor,... the best of both worlds!

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by Fwismoker

Yea I gotcha...also a matter of sematics of what people consider smoking. I consider true smoking the lower temps you describe...some don't

Most of the time i just want to encrust some good flavor on the outside of the meats and worry less about smoke. Non stick burning I'll still toss in some some smoking wood but i'm not worrying about having a pronounced smoke flavor.

I guess I'm somewhat confused then. Few (if any) of us are smoking meats in order to preserve them. If I use a SMOKER, it's because I want a nice smokey flavor for my meat. If I didn't, I wouldn't bother with the smoker. I would fire up a grill, a flat top, an oven, or a stove.

Granted, I don't want the smoke to be overpowering, but if I can barely taste the smoke, then I consider that to be a failure.