brine enhanced bird?

I've rebrined an "enhanced" bird, and it turned out fine! The brine I soaked it in was quite light, and did more to transfer flavors than to add much by way of salt.

You should be ok if you use the ratio of one gallon water; one cup sugar; one half cup salt. Using a full cup of salt will make the bird too salty for sure.

The expert say no , but I did one last year turn out wonderful

Bed Bath and Beyond has brining bags. I've never used one but think it should work fine.

DivaHerself said:

I've rebrined an "enhanced" bird, and it turned out fine! The brine I soaked it in was quite light, and did more to transfer flavors than to add much by way of salt.

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Yep, exactly. The osmosis will take care of equalizing the salt and water
(that, and adding flavor is the whole point of brining), but just go easy on the
salt -- use a light brine, as Alexa and Dave mentioned.

No worries!

John

Brine or not! Mom's turkey is D-R-Y! She has a thing for burnt offerings!
But please don't tell her I said so. I've offered to grill, or smoke, or fry the turkey for years. No luck.

I've been working on a Brining 202 (basically advanced brining). I'm with Patio on this one for the most part, but I don't agree it has to be a "light" brine.

I think the myth most people believe is that if you brine an enhance bird you'll add salt.

Brining doesn't work that way. It worked to equilize the % in the bird with the
% in the brine. Osmosis is how it works. It exchanges liquid in the brine with the liquid in the bird.

You could actually take an enhanced bird (say a 20% bird) and put it in a light solution and some of the bird would try to equalize to the liquid outside thus reducing the original percentage.

It won't "add" to an already enhanced bird unless your solution is saltier than the % enhanced.

Basically for the 8, 12, 15% enhanced bird a normal brine will work just as advertised. I don't think you have to go "light" on the salt at all. Unless your normal brine is not very salty. Over about 15% then the brine isn't very effective.

But NO ONE buys a 20% enhanced bird anymore, right?

Russ
Author Brining 101

PatioDaddio said:

Yep, exactly. The osmosis will take care of equalizing the salt and water
(that, and adding flavor is the whole point of brining), but just go easy on the
salt -- use a light brine, as Alexa and Dave mentioned.

No worries!

John

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Not trying to be a jerk, but it is diffusion, not osmosis. :tape:

We brine all our birds enhanced or not with the same ratio and have never had a problem. just saying

Hey Bob, if you don't have a Bed Bath and Beyond, a big ziploc works well too like a 4 gal size, I know most waly worlds sell them, if not just go to Home Depot or Lowes and get a commercial grade plastic 5 gal bucket. I usually do mine in an ice chest for 48 hours. I use fruit juices, sugar, cloves, and yes salt, and use half the require water becauce I cover the whole thing in ice, the ice melts and gives you the right ratio of water to juice. Do it every year and for some reason the number of people who show up for tureky is growing.

I've never brined a Turkey before...Can some folks post their favorite recipes?

Thanks!

SmokinOkie said:

... I think the myth most people believe is that if you brine an enhance bird you'll add salt.

Brining doesn't work that way. It worked to equilize the % in the bird with the % in the brine. Osmosis is how it works. It exchanges liquid in the brine with the liquid in the bird.

Click to expand...

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree with you disagreeing with me. :-D

Osmosis is a natural process whereby nature seeks to find balance
(homeostasis). As the famous quote states, nature abhors a vacuum.
Brining intentionally creates a salt, sugar and water vacuum inside the
meat.

When there is a saltier solution inside or outside of the meat in the brine,
osmosis will make it equalize, given enough time. You are correct that it
will equalize the concentration.

However, the second thing that a brine does is denature proteins. You can
think of it as sort of unraveling tightly wound strands. As the proteins
denature, they they are still too large to pass through the semi-permeable
cell wall, this means that more brine solution will pass into the cell to help
equalize the pressure. This continues until the pressure inside and outside
the cell are equalized.

The net result of all this is that the meat's cells now contain much more
water, and therefore salt, than they did when you started. This added
water is what causes brined meat to yield a more flavorful and moist final
product -- it started more flavorful (salt) and moist.

As the meat cooks, the proteins tighten and squeeze out water (again, to
equalize the pressure), but since there was more to start with, more is
there in then end.

So, I maintain that if you start with an "enhanced" bird and you brine with
a standard brine, you will necessarily add salt.

Not convinced? Here's what Cook's Illustrated found in their testing

Sodium levels by weight
Fresh - Brined for 4 hours (1 cup table salt per gallon): 0.22%
Fresh - Brined for 12 hours (1/2 cup table salt per gallon): 0.21%
Unbrined enhanced frozen: 0.27%
Brined enhanced frozen: 0.34%
Frozen kosher turkey: 0.16%

Just more food for thought (pun intended). :-D

John

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

Not trying to be a jerk, but it is diffusion, not osmosis. :tape:

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Actually, it's both. :-D

Diffusion is the what, and osmosis is the how. :wink:

Osmosis means the diffusion of certain molecules across the semipermeable
cell membranes (walls) in order to equalize the ion concentrations of either
side.

John

PatioDaddio said:

Not to be argumentative, but I disagree with you disagreeing with me. :-D


John

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Oh, I see how you're gonna be. Now we're gonna have a Brining Quick Draw to see who wins :becky: Two guys talking all science.

He's what I haven't been able to prove, I just don't have the equipment.

Take a enhanced bird, 8, 12, 15% and brine it in solution, but CHECK to see what the solution percentage is within the enhanced bird.

Denaturing not withstanding, not sure that matters in keeping the solution at it's current enhanced state. What's to prevent the solution IN the denatured proteins from seeking the lower osmotic state outside the bird.

So, now that everyone else's head is spinning.

We both agree it's okay to brine an enhanced bird.

And I agree with you, it is both Osmosis (the process) and Diffusion (the results).

Good stuff John.

With all this Osmosis and diffusion talk I feel like I'm watching an Alton Brown episode, just kiddin' guys, a lot of good info, nothing beats a 5 gal pail for brining turkeys

PatioDaddio said:

Actually, it's both. :-D

Diffusion is the what, and osmosis is the how. :wink:

Osmosis means the diffusion of certain molecules across the semipermeable
cell membranes (walls) in order to equalize the ion concentrations of either
side.

John

Click to expand...

Okay, osmosis is the movement of water molecules. Diffusion is the movement of molecules, which can include water. Since the salt is the "moving" molecule........ Water follows salt, not the other way around. Your argument would make the water a vehicle to transport the salt.

BTW I hope your bird does not have cell walls, if it does .............. it must be tofurkey.

If I only knew this much about que. :roll: Teach me to que.

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

Okay, osmosis is the movement of water molecules. Diffusion is the movement of molecules, which can include water. Since the salt it the "moving" molecule........

Now back to the homeostasis statement. Homeostasis requires an open or closed system acting upon it's environment. I would argue that the pile of dead tissue, the bird, is acted upon. Therefore such a state would be most aptly referred to as equilibrium.

BTW I hope your bird does not have cell walls, if it does .............. it must be tofurkey.

If I only knew this much about que. :roll: Teach me to que.

Click to expand...

Yep, the cell boundary is more accurately termed "cell membrane", and
homeostasis in this case is better defined as "equilibrium".

Good points.

John

Hawg Father of Seoul said:

Okay, osmosis is the movement of water molecules. Diffusion is the movement of molecules, which can include water. Since the salt it the "moving" molecule........

Now back to the homeostasis statement. Homeostasis requires an open or closed system acting upon it's environment. I would argue that the pile of dead tissue, the bird, is acted upon. Therefore such a state would be most aptly referred to as equilibrium.

BTW I hope your bird does not have cell walls, if it does .............. it must be tofurkey.

If I only knew this much about que. :roll: Teach me to que.

Click to expand...

Can someone provide a pH-pC diagram for Na for this? I am too old and lazy. I am thinking that I could alter the pH (vinegar or citrus) on this and affect the osmotic transfer of elements to achieve the desired equilibrium (pC=concentration) recommended by qualified brethren.

Well, in case we never get there scientifically, a little sugar would not hurt a darn thing by letting it get in the pores/fibers/proteins by whatever substance or mechanism is responsible for this.