Holding cooked meats in a commercial situation - why so varied the results?

[longwayfromhome]

I am very interested in commercial BBQ processes. While timing is very important (in relation to when customer demands are expected), the long times associated with the smoking/cooking process + the batch-nature of the process, means that whatever way you time things, quite a significant proportion of the cooked meat must be held for varying lengths of time before final serving. There are really only two ways of holding – cooling and reheating , or holding at a high heat. I am ignoring the third alternative – reheating by grilling (which effectively is a partial cook followed by a finishing cook).

How is it that some BBQ restaurants are good at this and some are not? I was watching a youtube video taken at the counter of Franklins BBQ in Austin, and the ribs were sourced out of a warmer, where they were sitting wrapped in foil. Franklin ribs have been reported as ‘ordinary’ through ‘fantastic’. I recently tried BBQ that was foiled, then held in a steam holding unit – the pulled pork was mushy (I believe due to the holding) yet the ribs held in exactly the same way were way better. I have tried brisket and ribs in Albuquerque, where they were pulled out of a very warm pit directly behind the serving counter and the meat was juicy as in straight off the smoker (which it kinda was, but it was a holding pit). In five BBQ joints tried in one week, three places had ribs that were tasty, but quite dry, in each case being served from a pile just sitting in warming containers (chafing dishes). I also suspect that a fair proportion of places that sauce their meats do so to counter the dryness of held meat.

So, are there any secrets people can pass on regarding their chosen holding processes? Seems like there must be some real subtleties in there somewhere. Food warmers/holding units are not cheap, are quite varied and seem an important/critical part of the entire process, so would appreciate your input.

TIA.

[rookiedad]

180* ...saran wrap!!!

[Sean "Puffy" Coals]

I'm not a expert in commercial cooking/serving by any means. I am only guessing based on your descriptions and my own personal experience and cooking results.

If the pulled pork was mushy, I'd say it was held at too high of a temp. Anything held at around 200* or higher will continue to cook and get mushy.

For the ribs being better/not mushy- I'd think that it has something to do with the thickness of a rack of ribs vs the thickness of a butt. Ribs cook much faster because the middle gets done faster due to the increased surface area.

Meat that is dry- usually happens when it's not wrapped properly during resting/holding or not held in a humid enough environment, both of which are common issues I've seen when using chafing dishes, or maybe it just dried out during the cooking process to the point that it was beyond help.

I think you're right on about the use of sauce. I never trust a place that serves their meats already dripping with sauce.

I think rookiedad is right- hold at well under 200* and wrap to keep the moisture in. I also will add some drippings to the pan if I am planning to reheat it- this adds not only moisture but also rendered fat, and we all know fat = flavor!

[landarc]

Mushy pork, in most cases, I am going to look at the cook and his process of cooking, more so than the hold. And, some folks, in fact, lots of folks, like mushy and wet pork. So, some places pour sauce onto the meat to make it mushy and wet.

Holding in a CVAP is far easier than holding in an active cambro, or holding oven. Some meats, such a brisket, really do just fine held in a smoker holding at around 145°F to 165°F, others, such as ribs don't so as well. However, in all cases, until you have tasted the cooks BBQ fresh off the smoker, you can't really tell how successful his holding techniques are. It is, in a very high likelihood, the case that the ribs that are dry from the holding oven were dry going in.

Incidentally, ribs are a very hard thing to judge a BBQ place by, based upon reviews. Everyone has such a wide range of what they expect when eating ribs, there is no way but to eat them, to understand what you think is good.

[HBMTN]

To me there are a lot more factors involved here. You would need to eat ribs several times from one place to see if the consistency was there. You may get a rack of ribs from a restaurant today and they were fresh off the pit and you take that as what they serve all the time. Then you may go back next week and get a rack of ribs that have been in a hot box for 4 hours and not be equally as good or even comparable. Maybe even the day before was slow and they have reheated the rack this time. It's one of the biggest issues with a restaurant, they have to make sure they have plenty of everything on hand yet they don't know when or if you are coming to eat. Every back yard BBQ'r thinks their BBQ is much better than any restaurant they eat at but it's not a fair comparison. At home we cook and eat our barbecue at the premium times and do not hot hold it waiting for someone to buy it and it makes a big difference. Chance are while much of the countries restaurant barbecue is mediocre, if challenge to a one on one BBQ cook off you would find they can cook much better than what they serve in their restaurant.

[longwayfromhome]

HBMTN - thanks for the response... please, I don't want the discussion to be about judging BBQ meats, I only gave the Franklin reference really to show that he hot-held his ribs as well. The points you make are mine exactly, but basically boil down to... how do we get consistency when the meat we are serving at any given moment may be 1 minutes off the smoker or came off yesterday?

[landarc]

You can't. That is the reality. The places with great reputations have them because they move a lot of product each day and rarely have to hold meat for a long time. That being said, some things are easier to hold than others, some cooks are better at timing and holding meat than others.

The man who taught me the most about brisket held his briskets in a huge pile in a warm smoker oven. His brisket was great, day in and day out. But, he sold everything he cooked most days, and on days he didn't, he would give it to friends, family and the local dining hall. His ribs were okay, not great and his pork was okay, not great.

[longwayfromhome]

Mmmm... I suspected this might be the case. It is kinda like a self-fulfilling prophesy - you sell out because it is good, and it is good because you sell out!

Thanks guys.

[sunrise]

I have been fighting with the same type of things when we vend as you mention. My ribs & pork, as well as my chicken & sides (mac & cheese & beans) hold very well and are not a problem. Although I have found the ribs hold much better in the Cambro when the racks are kept whole and not cut apart. My biggest problem comes with the tri tip I cook. I smoke it until its 135 degrees, pull it and put it in a pan, covered with foil and held in the cambro, If we are busy, there is no problem, I take them out, slice & serve and all goes well. The problem is when we are slow, the tri tips stay in the Cambro and continue to cook and become more well done than most folks like. I have been toying with cooking them to only 125, then putting them in the Cambro, but them what happens if we get busy? They will be too rare. If I dont cook enough, and we get busy, I dont have enough time to get more cooked. If anyone has any ideas, I sure would like to hear them. I do like what you said about you seeing out because its good.

[HBMTN]

Originally Posted by longwayfromhome

how do we get consistency when the meat we are serving at any given moment may be 1 minutes off the smoker or came off yesterday?

The only way to have consistency based on this would be to not serve fresher and better barbecue until it reaches a point that the consistency of what you can produce from day old barbecue. That way everything you serve is mediocre and there are many barbecue restaurants that are masters of this LOL

[longwayfromhome]

This thread discussed the same topic, ribs only...
http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/vi...ays=0&start=30

[Jacked UP BBQ]

High Humidity warming boxes work great. Keep at 160