Buckboard ham

A couple of them bags should have my address on them Ramsey.

Looks spot on to me. I'd say you have it totally figured out!

Cheers!

Bill

Nicely done. Looks fantastic. Thirdeye has a nice right up on on this in his blog I believe

Nice color, and great job on the slicing , I like how you packaged the various muscle groups.

stickman said:

I use Costco boneless pork butt and trim it to remove the region where the bone was. I then use a wet brine for nine days. I use salt at 4%, brown sugar at 4-6%, curing salt at 0.5%, all calculated by the combined weight of meat and water. I also add 4 bay leaves, 3 crushed garlic cloves, 1 tbsp of black peppercorns and about 1/2 tbsp of cloves per gallon of brine

Any thoughts about the best temp to pull the meat? At 155-165 I do still get the occasional chunks of gristle, although cutting the ham thin means it is not too offensive in, say, a sandwich.

Looks like Thirdeye pulls at 140-150, so I am not going to try and go higher than 165. I do get a fair bit of gelatin run-off even at 165.

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The salt and sugar added to a curing brine is very subjective, and any additional aromatics you add can really add some signature flavors that let your recipe stand out from others. For safety, you might double check your recipe's cure amount. When using Cure #1, the percentage needed is 0.25% which will yield ~156ppm. Cure #1 can also be calculated at the rate of 1.13 grams per pound of meat OR weight of meat + water in the curing bucket.

This discussion is a reminder that I need to update the finish temps on my Cookin' Site... the 140° to 150° is the safe temperature for a ready-to-eat pork product, but also allows you to fry some slices or use as a pizza topping without drying out the meat.

So, the accepted finish temperature range is actually 140° to 165°, and the particular roast will dictate the particular temp. For instance, a cured loin could be enjoyable at 140° to 150°, whereas a cured shoulder butt, shoulder picnic, or shanks usually need higher finish temps because tenderness comes into play. Slicing direction or the use of phosphates are also factors.

That ham looks great, Ramsey! :thumb:

stickman said:

I really wrestled with this. There is so much conflicting info out there. I ended up following Ruhlman as best as I could - he seems to recommend 0.25% by weight for dry brining and 0.5% by weight for wet brining (although it is possible I misunderstood). I am also calculating concentrations based on total weight of water + meat, and not everyone does that.

I had a quick look at the medical literature and to me it looks like the safety concerns around nitrites - particularly as carcinogens - are a bit over-done, so I went for a heavier concentration, figuring that I'd rather feel safe from botulism (not that that is a huge risk for whole muscle cuts, although I suppose a poorly-cleaned meat slicer could be an issue).

However, if you have good data or good references on the safe and effective range for cure #1, I would be very happy to learn!

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Curing meat has a deep history, there were many products, and many variations of methods used over the last 1,000 years. In modern years... say 1925 and forward, lack of refrigeration is probably as good as a dividing line as anything. Meaning, curing with temperatures of 35° to 40° required less salt, less cure, was much more controlled and generally safer. One problem, that still exists today is using the 'eyeball' or 'volumetric' measurement of the various chemicals used to cure meat. During the depression my Grandparents had a dairy, and an ice house for keeping products cold. And a portion of that ice house was used to cure bacon, ham and corning beef and wild game, as well as aging sides of fresh meats.

Fast forward to the 1960's and 1970's my Grandfather was retired and still made sausage, bacon, corned beef and the like. Early memories of making bacon involved a wooden 'salt box' which contained a mixture of salt, and I believe, potassium nitrate (saltpeter) and pork bellies were dredged in that mixture, then allowed to cure for a couple of weeks. At a young age, that is my reference point in my home curing adventures.

Ruhlman is well known for being a little heavy handed with salt and curing agents in certain formulations. He is a great writer, and has wonderful photographs in his books. I'm guessing his 0.5% recommendation of Cure #1 when wet curing is probably based on the controversy amongst Charcuterist's about "pick-up", which means a hunk of meat in a briny bucket might absorb 5%, 7% or 10% of the solution. But regardless of that, the weight of Cure #1 (measured in grams) in the bucket is based on the weight of meat & water in the bucket, also weighed in grams. On a good note, when you injected some of your curing brine, you insured an even coverage immediately, instead of waiting on the natural diffusion of the salts and nitrites.

I'm a fan of "Equilibrium" curing method's, which involves careful calculations and planning. I'm also a fan of Pop's Brine, which is a fantastic universal wet curing brine that focuses toward safety, along with a wonderful end result. And although this method is as old as my Grandfather's 'eyeball' methods, it was tested and approved by the NY State Health Department since the family had a retail meat market.

stickman said:

So it sounds like I could go a bit lighter on the the pink salt and still stay safe. If I am computing by combined weight of meat and water I am naturally boosting up the concentration compared to someone who does it by meat weight only (which to my physicist brain just seems like the wrong way to do it! :shocked.

I can see that there would be a very different (and much higher) concentration gradient if you put 0.25% by weight on the outside of a piece of meat in a dry brine situation compared to 0.5% in a wet brine situation. One would need to do some careful assays over time to see what difference that would make to how much nitrite got driven into the tissue over a nine-day period, so it is perhaps not surprising there is controversy.

Would love to know more about "Pop's Brine" - do you have this on your website?

And - I really appreciate your careful and informed answers. So great to get access to your expertise like this!

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Just stick with 0.25% of Cure #1 based on the weight of meat only for dry curing, -or- 0.25% of the weight of meat & water when using a curing brine.

The gradient of dry verses wet is interesting. When dry curing, you know exactly how much salt, sugar, seasonings and cure goes on the meat. It can't leave the bag. When brine curing, you know how much how much stuff you put in the bucket, but you guess how much of the seasonings get into the meat (the uptake).

Here is a link to Pop's Brine and my Pop's inspired corning brine.

https://playingwithfireandsmoke.blogspot.com/1999/07/pops-brine-universal-curing-brine.html

Haven't made buckboard in ages...
Yours looks delicious!

I thought, and have made Buckboard bacon using pork loin. Wasn't aware of using a whole dang butt chunk. If considered as bacon, how do you use it, being so large?
Ed

ModelMaker said:

I thought, and have made Buckboard bacon using pork loin. Wasn't aware of using a whole dang butt chunk. If considered as bacon, how do you use it, being so large?
Ed

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Buckboard pork loin = Canadian bacon.

stickman said:

I agree that you know what goes on the meat, but I'm not sure it all goes in the meat. When I make belly bacon using a dry brine, when I pull the meat from the bag there is always a quantity of liquid in the bag, which then gets tipped down the sink. What's the mass of nitrite in that liquid? More than zero, for sure. So there's an uptake equation that could be applied even with the dry brine.

I guess with both the dry brine and the wet brine approaches, we are aiming to get the meat and the brine into equilibrium. If we leave it in the brine long enough for that to happen, then the stuff that gets tipped down the sink shouldn't matter in either case, right?

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When dry curing bacon we can expect that molecules of water in the pork are mobile, and early on the cure which is salt, Cure #1 (also salt), and sugar is in contact with the surfaces of a pork belly. The salts draw out some liquid from the belly and at the same time the salts diffuse into the belly. Sugar molecules are larger, and penetrate to some degree. But something like black pepper is a surface flavoring. Over the next few days, the salty liquid is re-absorbed. If you have noticeable liquid in the bag, that is fine, just sort of massage it around every day when you turn the bag over. At the end of the curing cycle rinse the surface of the belly, and I also soak just to remove any stubborn salts.

Your explanation of equilibrium occurring in the bag or in the bucket is correct in that eventually.... everything will equalize. But if you use a stronger (or hot) cure mixture, you need to pay attention to curing time, or you could wind up with a really salty product, or a product with more nitrites than you actually need.

Modern equilibrium curing has a slightly different meaning. This method uses predetermined amounts of salt, cure, and sugar in order to allow you to safely arrive at the exact level of salt and sugar (the Cure #1 amount is constant) that you desire, and at the same time, it's impossible to over-cure or have the end result over-salty. Going back to dry curing a pork belly. I use 1.5% salt, 1% sugar and 0.25% Cure #1. I can cure a belly for 7, 10, 12, 14, days and the salt level will never get higher than 1.5%.

I prefer the longer cure times of 14 days as the fat is softer, and the bacon takes on a richer "cured" flavor. I almost always add coarse pepper during the curing and again afterward, so the added time helps that flavor too.