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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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03-21-2010, 10:45 AM | #1 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 08-02-07
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Name/Nickname : David
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Expected Payout to Entry Fee Cost
Ok, I have been wondering what others consider when evaluating the cost vs. Potential ROI on a comp.
I know that the promoter is taking the risk as they have to guaranty a payout in advance of the event. But I have been noticing, as the size of the fields are growing the payout have not always been increasing too? That is to say, if it is originally anounced as a $10,000 guaranty event, with the entry fee on average of 250. Now the event grew to 70, that is $17,500 in entry fees only. Then add in the sponsor money and such. I have seen that they stick with the original payout or close to it and it becomes not that great of a potential ROI. I would assume that the Sponsors money should cover the overhead and the promoter should be able to make money too. Why do it if you can't make it a win-win situation. But I should have a shot at more that 60% of overall entry fees. What have others been seeing or am I way out in left field????
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Q-To-U-BBQ in Cave Creek, Arizona (RIP 2020) 2010, 2011 and 2019 Best BBQ in N. Phoenix Toys 4 BBQ'N Competition BBQ Team 4x Hunsaker Drum Smokers FEC 100 (sold), FEC 120 (sold), FEC 240, FEC 500 (sold), PG 500 Shirley Fab 52 x 24 Patio (sold) 250 gallon trailered Moberg |
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03-22-2010, 12:52 AM | #2 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 10-29-08
Location: Kailua, HI (Oahu)
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We never enter a contest expecting to make a ROI on the competiton side of things. We simply arent consistent enough to expect to make money competing. On the other hand, as you know Dave, out here in AZ we area allowed to do People's Choice (PC). If we see that a contest has the potential to attract a large crowd, we will attend expecting to make a large score just doing PC. Anything won after we make our PC $ is just icing on the cake.
As far as entry fees go, we would find it difficult to accept paying over $300 per contest. That's just my take.
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Crash - HIBarbeque.com |
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03-22-2010, 01:54 AM | #3 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-23-08
Location: York, PA
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Well, there are a bunch of other ancillary fees for the promoter as well. Insurance, security, EMT's on site, the cost of power/utilities. It eats up profit quick.
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Tim McMaster - Porter Mac's Rockin' BBQ - Recently converted Pellet-Head |
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03-22-2010, 10:26 AM | #4 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
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Also, remember that the amount announced on the KCBS site is the ‘Guaranteed’ minimum payout and the final amount can be more…
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Jeff CBJ# 23376 Stockcar BBQ Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life! If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish! Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe. |
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03-22-2010, 10:49 AM | #5 | |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
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Quote:
In other words, what can be expected when more teams sign up than were "expected" or forecasted? (How much) should the prize pool grow above that stated guarantee? At the end of the day, what is the expected ratio of entries to payouts for you as a competitor? I have been thinking about the answer, and I am not sure I know what my own opinion even is. On the surface, it seems we are to the point where 1:1 is reasonable for just about any contest, as a baseline. |
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03-22-2010, 12:30 PM | #6 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 08-02-07
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Name/Nickname : David
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Thanks G$,
That is what I am trying to determine. I understand that the payout can not go down from what is submitted and it can go up. However, I am not seeing too much of the increase, when the event gains popularity. Crash, I understand what you are saying about the PC, but that it seperate to the payout of the overall event and not available at all events. I was specifically wondering about the prize fund.
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Q-To-U-BBQ in Cave Creek, Arizona (RIP 2020) 2010, 2011 and 2019 Best BBQ in N. Phoenix Toys 4 BBQ'N Competition BBQ Team 4x Hunsaker Drum Smokers FEC 100 (sold), FEC 120 (sold), FEC 240, FEC 500 (sold), PG 500 Shirley Fab 52 x 24 Patio (sold) 250 gallon trailered Moberg |
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03-22-2010, 01:41 PM | #7 | |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-14-05
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
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Quote:
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Guy (Pitmaster) BBQ Team: Lawn Guyland Smokers Stupidity for Dummies …because sometimes, you just can’t dumb it down enough… Last edited by Sawdustguy; 03-22-2010 at 01:58 PM.. |
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Thanks from: ---> |
03-22-2010, 01:56 PM | #8 | |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
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Quote:
It would probably even vary on a case by case basis. There are valid points, in each scenario, on both sides of the equation. But here is a point blank question: Would you sign up for a contest not funding the prize pool at a 1:1 ratio in the first place? Would you expect a contest with a 'guranteed' 1:1 ratio, to keep that ratio if a significant increase in teams signed up over what was 'expected'? (I'm not sure what the answers are, but it is a worthwhile question to think about) |
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03-22-2010, 02:18 PM | #9 | |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-14-05
Location: Vernon, Connecticut
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If we won a few contests my answer may be a bit different but not a lot. If we won I don't think that I we would enter contests with a better payout to begin with. A purse of $10,000 is not common here in the northeast. If the purse was advertised at $10,000 and a number of extra teams showed up I don't think I would expect the prize fund to be upped for that contest but I would expect next years contest to have a better prize fund. Again, this is honest speculation because of our viewpoint. If the contest was for charity, I could not care less because I would want to see the charity benefit as much as possible. I hope that answers your question.
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Guy (Pitmaster) BBQ Team: Lawn Guyland Smokers Stupidity for Dummies …because sometimes, you just can’t dumb it down enough… |
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03-22-2010, 03:55 PM | #10 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 06-21-07
Location: Overland Park, KS
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I wish more contests would payout 100% of the entry fees in prizes. If they want to make money for the promoter or charity that's great, just don't do it on the backs of the cooks. As several contests have demonstrated, you can have a financially successful event and still return 100%+ entry fees in prize money.
For me personally, I don't care about the organizers' finances, whether for profit or not. With a few exceptions, potential prize money plays a part in forming our schedule. We couldn't have competed in nearly as many contests as we did the last few years without it.
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Paul Ostrom The Pickled Pig Twitter - @ThePickledPig CBJ, WSM, UDS Cookers, Weber Gasser, Weber One Touch Gold Kettle, |
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03-22-2010, 04:18 PM | #11 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 06-20-09
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Seems like the events that are ran by charities should give out receipts of donations if the entry fees exceed the payout.
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Outlaw BBQ Smoker - TheBBQSuperstore.com |
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03-22-2010, 04:50 PM | #12 | |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 08-08-07
Location: Cartersville, GA
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Yes there are a few contests that generate major revenue from public admission and sponsors, but these are in the minority. There are many other fund raising activities that require a great deal less work for a higher return. The majority of BBQ competitions are glorified private parties for the participants. As the primary beneficiaries of the event, I strongly disagree with the sentiment that organizers "make money on the backs of the cooks". The truth is that we who cook and judge need the organizers a whole lot more than they need us. |
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Thanks from:---> |
03-23-2010, 09:26 AM | #13 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
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Should payouts be raised when the number of teams increases? It would be nice but I’m not expecting it.
Do I use the initial payout information to select comps? Normally, but not always. Example, there is one small comp this summer (Poorque) that the entrance fee is $80 and payout is $70 (no, this isn’t a misprint). Why would I go to this comp? Let’s see, it’s got a governors proclamation, it’s not far from my house, and I figure that with such a low entrance fee, there are going to be a bunch of new teams that this is going to be their first comp and it’s a chance for me to pay back for all of the help I got when I first started. Trust me, the money is nice, but how many of us can afford to make it our job?
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Jeff CBJ# 23376 Stockcar BBQ Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life! If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish! Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe. |
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03-23-2010, 09:50 AM | #14 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
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Conversely, if not many of us can make it our job, then how few of us can afford to fund our hobby exclusively out-of-pocket without considering the payout schedule?
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. Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url] |
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03-23-2010, 10:53 AM | #15 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-03-06
Location: Chi-Town
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Dive, you don't think it waters down the other WI contests? I know I'm not going to any of them... until after Labor Day.
Honestly, nothing against my friends cooking in WI this summer... But I really hope some backyarder wins the Jack draw...
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cancersuckschicago.com FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA BBQ TOUR Red Jambo one off FE 100 FEC 100 WSM Homer Simpson 22 " Weber Kettle Red 18 1/2" Weber Kettle Black 26 3/4" Weber Kettle |
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