|
Food Handling General Discussion General and open discussion for food handling and safety. |
|
Thread Tools |
06-24-2009, 04:43 PM | #46 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
hmmmmm read post below
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent Last edited by barbefunkoramaque; 06-24-2009 at 06:51 PM.. |
06-24-2009, 06:48 PM | #47 | |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
Issue One
Quote:
My favorite parts of your Link "Studies - including the one initiated by high school student Claire Nelson (mentioned in one of the email texts above) — have shown that DEHA, when present, can migrate into food at high temperatures." Okay so High school student says it can leech... let est. that as fact for a moment. "Though it is not contained in Saran Wrap, it has been, and may still be, an ingredient in some other brands of plastic wrap." By the way... its not in commercial grade film either. The films are made by most of the same companies. "The current scientific consensus is that it is not, at least not in the minute amounts resulting from migration from plastics into foods." "Even though DEHA has long been regarded as a possible human carcinogen, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency removed it from its list of toxic chemicals in the late 1990s after concluding, based on a review of the scientific evidence, that "it cannot reasonably be anticipated to cause cancer, teratogenic effects, immunotoxicity, neurotoxicity, gene mutations, liver, kidney, reproductive or developmental toxicity or other serious or irreversible chronic health effects." Lets review... so far we have a study by a high school student that concludes that DEHA may leach into our food but its NOT in the plastic film we are talking about AND is probably not harmful. Your LINKS Inside the link go on to show that studies from the U of Cincinnati (not a high school kid) show that BPA is also not in their product. Here is my favorite one about the email which started this silliness (claim that fat and heat leached dioxins out of the plastic film. "This e-mail claimed that the combination of fat, high heat and plastics releases dioxin into the food and ultimately into the cells of the body, thereby increasing the risk of producing cancerous cells. SC Johnson has researched these claims and it is clear that the information is not only misleading, but also unnecessarily alarms consumers. When used in the microwave, there is no trace level migration of dioxins from any Saran ™ or Ziploc® product. We know this because these products are 100% dioxin-free." So once again... no dioxins in the actual product... which is the same argument stated above in regards to the study by the high school chick. This MYTH is spread much in the same way it had been introduced by you in this forum. You linked it to us... a link you claim is about leaching dioxins into food... you use that as you premise that it is dumb BUT... failed to read it thoroughly enough to tell that for the most part it says the opposite. Perhaps only this quote from the FDA, in a document written quite some time ago give a shred of question to the issue. "Microwave plastic wraps, wax paper, cooking bags, parchment paper, and white microwave-safe paper towels should be safe to use. Do not let plastic wrap touch foods during microwaving." I am not asking anyone to agree with me... but if you're going to spread conjecture... please read your own links for evidence to support it. Even that you don't really have to do... Issue Two Your claim that I issue Ultimatums. Once again I respectfully disagree based on definition. One of the reasons why I mentioned "mopping" in this thread as an example of things people disagree about is that precise reason. In the Mopping thread the posters pretty much handled all the reasons why not to... I used something called "humor." You will note at times I will be arbitrary but not without poking fun or parodying my own flexibility elsewhere. In Other posts I claim to to flexible in one matter but poke fun at my inflexibility in other areas. Now, let's take that thread for example. I believe I was making a humorous statement both there and later in the thread where I said another way would be to essentially enter into your pit to mop so as to keep cold air from going in. I assumed everyone would see the humor (not necessarily think its funny) but at least see it was an attempt to make a silly. But hey, here is a place where I got someone all in a tizzy because I thought a specific group of BBQers should be frozen in liquid nitrogen. Here is the place someone took that seriously long ago. No... what I mean is... hey, if its stupid or dumb to you, instead of linking it to an abstract document just tell us. I think its stupid and every bbq restaurateur from Allen Texas to Maine that has been using this for the last 30 or so years is stupid because.... ??????????????????????? Not a problem with the opinion... but I wanna know what the problem with using the film to reheat or finish cooking or holding is NOT... what the problem with SMOKING meat in plastic (which was not the claim) or using shrink vac plastic (which is not the same thing or being implied here). Making Ultimatums---actually I did not make one in that sentence. Ultimatum means a demand (backed up by a threat). Possibly, you could make a case that perhaps my exclamation point in the sentence you cut and pasted here expresses a threat of some kind due to it abruptness... but that would be a weak assumption. Finally... and ultimatum would be... "stop mopping now!!!!!! or I will dose violators in liquid nitrogen." Truth be told neither you nor I offered an ultimatum here or in the post about mopping. You made a claim... that was using plastic film to SMOKE meat is dumb.... there was no threat. So thus.... no ultimatum. Good thread though and thanks for the opinions. So much for ignoring my taunts huh? LOL
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent |
|
06-25-2009, 08:22 AM | #48 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-13-03
Location: St. Peters MO: 38.786730,-90.642551
Name/Nickname : Mark
|
Don:
I got a little more time to respond today so here it is. Perhaps leading brands such as Saran Wrap are safe now if used properly. My concern is using off brands that may still contain harmful additives such as plastizers and/or uninformed misuse. Here's a reputable link: http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules...x?articleId=60 Note the following: Phthalates and the Types of Products They are Used In Di (2-ethylhexyl) phthalate [DEHP]: building products, food packaging, children's products and medical devices DEHP is added to PVC to make some soft, clingy wraps for commercial use. Consumer Reports tested 14 national and local brands of wrapped cheese for levels of plasticizers. The reason they chose cheese is that plasticizers are more likely to leach into fatty foods like cheese and hamburger. They found high levels of DEHP in the cheeses wrapped in deli cling wrap. People who eat several ounces of this cheese every day could get very high doses of DEHP that could possibly cause health problems. There were moderate levels of DEHP in some of the shrink-wrapped cheeses and in the waxed cheeses with plastic overwrap. There was little or no DEHP on individually wrapped slices of American cheese or blocks of cheddar in laminated foil wrap. Consumer Reports also tested plastic wrap. Of the seven national and store brands of plastic wrap they analyzed, only two contained any of the five plasticizers they were looking for. They reheated a cooked hamburger wrapped in those plastic wraps, but found just a little bit of the plasticizers had been absorbed where the patty was in contact with the wrap. In terms of the eight microwavable bowls from top manufacturers they examined, they found no plasticizers.I believe in a relatively minimalist approach in cooking. Consequently, I don't wrap. I think it's generally a waste of time and finite resources that end up as garbage. This is my personal choice and I don't intend to force such views on anyone else. Another personal trait of mine is a general mistrust of agencies such as the EPA in safeguarding the public health. In my opinion, such agencies have often been shown to be too cozy with "industry" instead. Also note my byline: "A thin line separates paranoia from an acute understanding of reality." I could be straying over that line a little here but then again, maybe not.
__________________
Dr. Mark (STL) Ph.D. (honorary) Bovine $hitology A thin line separates paranoia from an acute understanding of reality. |
06-25-2009, 12:33 PM | #49 | |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
Mark - My Dear Friend and Brethren.
I sincerely mean that. For one... what is funny, is neither of us habitually use this product. I do sometimes, actually increasingly so as my new ministry cooks a lot of things ahead of time because we can only smoke around 50 and freeze or cool about that much. But here we are arguing about something we don't use... you use foil and I use butcher paper. I think foil is hugely dangerous but that is another matter. But perhaps our debate will educate. Now your new info you spend time on it great. Thanks for the contribution. This is what I call a well thought out premise. I was glad to read that. seriously I agree with your thoughts on the EPA (I mentioned FDA in regards to safety and public information. Recently we have been experiencing limited governmental oversight where we desperately need it because politicians who think that Free Market theology is infallible (it is neither all good or all bad in my opinion) added a caveat to the "police themselves" theory in that it was thought that business owners would police themselves merely to avoid controversy and thereby lose their cookies should a health scare rise up. However, even Greenspan stated that his worst mistake was thinking big business would police itself. In as far as the government the rule of thumb since the 80's is one way to combat regulation (even if it was passed into law) was to place cronies in at the heads of the various overseeing bodies that were friendly or came from the actual industry they were charged to protect. In addition, lowering budgets (of course not the salaries of said leaders) also reduced a body's capacity to enforce. So yes I agree with your assertions about trust and the EPA or FDA as this case calls for but only in matters of nuance. The FDA had the stuff on its list.... but removed it as no real studies showed that dioxins did cause this damage after a 30 year call for scientist to come up with it. Furthermore, the main fact is that it simply is not in the product so we kind of are debating a moot point. Dr. Fujimoto or whatever, was doing studies that included styrofoam... he cited his work was done in Hawaii where he worked then later when pressed for the study he said it was in Japan... when still pressed he said it was in Japaneese. So he is clearly out of the equation as a reputable source. Now as a critic of your new info... its origin is here http://www.aerias.org/DesktopModules...x?articleId=60 Now Aerias Primary goal is actually to protect air quality. Basically, it knocks just about EVERY plastic made out there. Why, because simply the actual making of the product is bad for our air. But you cannot make the public make the desision on their own as they honestly are busy living from day to day... so the goal here is if they attach a secondary problem to EVERY plastic out there... the theory is demand will go down and thereby reduce production and increase the quality of our air. So even (I can't believe I am saying this) well meaning institutions like this tend to only use one set of datum. I like this article because the references are included (though not that conclusive as most of the food related stuff is secondary sources at best [newpapers]). So... If I were you.... read this... it HUGELY supports your argument and also is well credentialed and primary, though dated. http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/EDs...s-CU5jun98.htm Good good letter. Quote:
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent |
|
06-25-2009, 01:40 PM | #50 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-13-03
Location: St. Peters MO: 38.786730,-90.642551
Name/Nickname : Mark
|
Thanks for the link http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/EDs...s-CU5jun98.htm
BTW: I don't foil either. I have been known to place butts, briskets or whatever in a stainless steel food pan with a lid on top.
__________________
Dr. Mark (STL) Ph.D. (honorary) Bovine $hitology A thin line separates paranoia from an acute understanding of reality. |
06-25-2009, 04:00 PM | #51 | |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
Quote:
other than that, if i am doing a small order just a pan like you say and a lid. Ohhhhhhh but the JUICE that is made. one of the charities I work for has one of these huge 5 inch deep stainless pans with a spigot!!!! So you can get in there and drain out the juices (stopping before you get to the fat) and not disturb the briskets inside. Sadly they all have rotesseries and never use it that way.
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent |
|
06-26-2009, 08:32 AM | #52 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 08-13-03
Location: St. Peters MO: 38.786730,-90.642551
Name/Nickname : Mark
|
Perhaps the used butcher paper could be marketed as a high fiber tortilla?
__________________
Dr. Mark (STL) Ph.D. (honorary) Bovine $hitology A thin line separates paranoia from an acute understanding of reality. |
06-26-2009, 01:16 PM | #53 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
lol
oh my gosh the lego joke was funny. i feel so bad for laughing at it.
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent |
02-02-2010, 09:47 PM | #54 |
Got Wood.
Join Date: 07-02-09
Location: Edwardsville, Il
|
JPP, Right or wrong this is what I know. My wife was a head cook for @20 yrs and once a week they served Turkey on the menu, she always covered them with plastic wrap and baked at 350 with no problems. Nice juicy end product. She is licensed with Illinois state and was under strick government regulations always. Just my .02 worth.
__________________
I Like Big Butts |
03-14-2010, 08:33 PM | #55 | |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 06-05-08
Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
|
Quote:
|
|
03-14-2010, 08:52 PM | #56 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 03-08-08
Location: Overland Park Kansas
|
Dude this sweet that this post is still getting attention. I forgot I posted it! :)
|
03-15-2010, 09:36 AM | #57 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
thats cuz u tha man Just
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent |
03-16-2010, 09:28 PM | #58 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 06-28-07
Location: Duvall, WA
|
__________________
"The team formerly known as "Wine Country "Q"... PNWBA "Team of the Year" 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2017... We cook on MAK Grills and Bullets... |
03-16-2010, 09:34 PM | #59 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
Some say Aluminum had been linked to the early onslaught of Alzheimers
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent |
03-16-2010, 09:34 PM | #60 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
|
I can't remember where I heard that?
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Brisket - To Wrap or Not To Wrap | Anchors Smokeshop | Q-talk | 28 | 04-14-2023 11:03 AM |
Brisket question - always wrap in foil?? | ederan42 | Q-talk | 18 | 12-01-2011 08:09 AM |
BRISKET... wrap in tin at 170 or not? | BPDC | Q-talk | 9 | 08-29-2010 05:21 PM |
Pre-rubbing ribs, to wrap or not to wrap? | thull | Q-talk | 4 | 08-04-2009 03:40 PM |
Plastice Wrap on Pork and Brisket | Just Pulin' Pork | Q-talk | 18 | 04-03-2008 04:35 AM |
|
|