Let's talk pork ... wondering if the taste profile has changed?

KC_Bobby · 07-06-2011, 09:25 PM

Throughout 2008-10 pork was a very consistent category for us, it earned calls regularly. When it didn't get a call it was generally right outside the top scores and never killed us overall.

This year, the pork has taken a nosedive. For the life of me, I can't think of anything we're doing differently in purchase, prep, cook or box.

Wondering if others have had similar experiences with pork this year?

jbrink01 · 07-06-2011, 10:19 PM

Same thing happened to my brisket this year. I'm thinking the judges want pot roast not brisket. No idea on pork, except maybe use Yardbird and Smoke on Wheels......seems to work for them.

Just Pulin' Pork · 07-06-2011, 11:13 PM

Bob great topic hope people chime in! The best we have done in pork is 2nd out of 192 at Lenexa last year, looking at the pics recently it looked good. Comp BBQ I think is becoming a coin toss weekend and week out!

goodbuddiesbbq · 07-07-2011, 07:12 AM

2 - 2nd
1 - 3rd
1 - 4th
1 - 6th

In our last 5 events in pork....before our most recent changes...our 5 previous contests in pork were as follows:

9th
10th
6th
28th
29th

Changes: We got really salty on our rub and painted our pieces with super sweet sauce, both are our own recipe. I can't give any more specific information or I'll have to answer to Top Men. It literally has gone from easily our worst category to arguably our best.

boogiesnap · 07-07-2011, 07:25 AM

i've only done 2 KCBS contests so i'm not much of a resource on the topic, but, i'll offer that i made 1 simple change from the first to the next and went from 22nd to 5th in pork.

for 5th, i too painted each piece with a pretty sticky sweet red sauce.

chad · 07-07-2011, 07:29 AM

Taste "profile" is always a moving target. You have to keep up with what the competition and even the regional market is doing.

Hey, if it was easy everyone would score 180.

Sledneck · 07-07-2011, 08:12 AM

A-1 steak sauce , it's not just for brisket any more

Plowboy · 07-07-2011, 09:18 AM

I think it has changed for sure. I've been doing the same pork for six years and have had great results including 5th place pork TOY, Butt to Butt 11 Champion, Butt to Butt 12 Reserve Champion, Great American 1st Place, American Royal 1st Place, and several contest 1st place finishes. In 2008-2009 a pork call wasn't even a question. I could always count on a call and most of the time a high call. It was money. Now, I'm mostly miss and sometimes a low hit. Made a few major changes this last weekend and hit 2nd place with a 172+.

Still using my tried and true injection, though. Ancient Chinese secret... unless you've taken one of my classes!

Good luck finding your new path. Darren of Iowa's Smokey D's and I have been talking "lost pork" this last month. Like me, he's cooked the same pork for years with strong results. When your go to recipe isn't hitting, you feel like a rookie cook again and don't know where to go next. It is like ground zero.

Balls Casten · 07-07-2011, 09:22 AM

Our neighbor at Whiting made the same comment.

WineMaster · 07-07-2011, 09:43 AM

So is it trending more to a Sauce entry? VS Texture and Bark

carlyle · 07-07-2011, 10:22 AM

This is a puzzle since the judging criteria have not changed.

Be interesting to know if you ran into some of the same judges contest to contest.
KCBS judges tracking still not in place and running.

I would be surprised if there was an easy obvious answer here. Probably a mix of reasons plus luck ( unluck) of the draw about what table you were judged at.

Would be good to know what the actual scores were to see where you were losing points.

Lake Dogs · 07-07-2011, 10:29 AM

Is it possible that with the popularity in competition bbq growing that the *average* team is significantly better than you'd see a few years ago? If so, then it is going to be more of a "which table you land on" type of thing. That's a question for judges; the ones who've judged the same competitions over the last 8+- years. What's changed?

Jorge · 07-07-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

Is it possible that with the popularity in competition bbq growing that the *average* team is significantly better than you'd see a few years ago? If so, then it is going to be more of a "which table you land on" type of thing. That's a question for judges; the ones who've judged the same competitions over the last 8+- years. What's changed?

I think that's part of it, and the stats make that pretty clear. There are two teams that are pretty dialed in. One racking up quite a few RGCs.

I think that classes and the internet are playing a role. The learning curve is a lot shorter, and product becomes similar. It's also pretty easy to sit down at the keyboard, place the order and get the same ingredients that just about everybody else is ordering.

That draws the field closer together. The teams that figure out a way to set themselves apart, and appeal to the judges in a positive way are ahead of the curve.

luckyduk · 07-07-2011, 12:48 PM

Maybe judges are getting tired of the same rubs,sauces,etc with many entries....need some way to differentiate your entry in a good way?
As for me, pork has taken over chicken as my worst category
I have been receiving okay taste scores and terrible tenderness even when I have cooked to different temps in different contests.
Going back to the KISS method with a really good sauce

Plowboy · 07-07-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

Is it possible that with the popularity in competition bbq growing that the *average* team is significantly better than you'd see a few years ago? If so, then it is going to be more of a "which table you land on" type of thing. That's a question for judges; the ones who've judged the same competitions over the last 8+- years. What's changed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorge

I think that's part of it, and the stats make that pretty clear. There are two teams that are pretty dialed in. One racking up quite a few RGCs.

I think that classes and the internet are playing a role. The learning curve is a lot shorter, and product becomes similar. It's also pretty easy to sit down at the keyboard, place the order and get the same ingredients that just about everybody else is ordering.

That draws the field closer together. The teams that figure out a way to set themselves apart, and appeal to the judges in a positive way are ahead of the curve.

If true that teams are just getting better, then it would mean that the overall scores are getting that much higher. That isn't the case. It isn't just about placement in the field of teams, it is about the number of 8's and 9's you are getting. Since judges don't, theoretically, compare teams, then what I'm saying about scores being overall higher would be true. I'm just not seeing that. I'm seeing scores staying the same, but teams with different recipes moving around in the field. That tells me that there's a shift in what's winning. Could be presentation style changes that are affecting that as much as taste.

07-06-2011, 09:25 PM	#1
KC_Bobby Babbling Farker Join Date: 05-03-07 Location: Olathe KS	Let's talk pork ... wondering if the taste profile has changed? Throughout 2008-10 pork was a very consistent category for us, it earned calls regularly. When it didn't get a call it was generally right outside the top scores and never killed us overall. This year, the pork has taken a nosedive. For the life of me, I can't think of anything we're doing differently in purchase, prep, cook or box. Wondering if others have had similar experiences with pork this year? __________________ Boondoggle BBQ Country Smokers 450 Weber Smokey Mountain 18" Proud KCBS Member & Certified Judge Last edited by KC_Bobby; 07-06-2011 at 10:25 PM..

07-06-2011, 10:19 PM	#2
jbrink01 is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 08-17-06 Location: Washington, Missouri	Same thing happened to my brisket this year. I'm thinking the judges want pot roast not brisket. No idea on pork, except maybe use Yardbird and Smoke on Wheels......seems to work for them. __________________ [CENTER][B][/B] [/CENTER] [CENTER][B][I][B]KCBS #13207[/B][/I][/B][/CENTER] [CENTER][B][I]2013 Insane Can Posse [/I][I]Tour [/I][/B][/CENTER] [CENTER][I]Sponsored By: [/I][/CENTER] [CENTER][B][I]Gateway BBQ Store[/I][/B][/CENTER] [CENTER][B][I]Blues Hog BBQ Company[/I][/B][/CENTER] [CENTER][B][I]Plowboys BBQ Company[/I][/B][/CENTER]

07-07-2011, 07:25 AM	#5
boogiesnap Babbling Farker Join Date: 04-22-10 Location: NEW ENGLAND	i've only done 2 KCBS contests so i'm not much of a resource on the topic, but, i'll offer that i made 1 simple change from the first to the next and went from 22nd to 5th in pork. for 5th, i too painted each piece with a pretty sticky sweet red sauce. __________________ [SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"][I][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][/FONT]"YAWN"[/I][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]-[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="2"]In memory of a friend.[/SIZE][/COLOR] avatar by grillman. patent pending. :mad2::becky:

07-07-2011, 07:29 AM	#6
chad somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 08-13-03 Location: Clearwater, FL	Taste "profile" is always a moving target. You have to keep up with what the competition and even the regional market is doing. Hey, if it was easy everyone would score 180. __________________ Dave Southern Brethren BBQ Competition Team "It's all about getting paid!" - Myron Mixon "I love being hated in my hometown!" - David Hair KingFisher Gator Rotisserie cooker (RIP), WSM (RIP), Stainless 5 burner with IR gas grill (RIP), Turkey Fryer, Weber JD Commemorative grill (RIP), Masterbuilt 40" insulated ELECTRIC smoker (new heating element), Pit Boss Tailgater pellet pooper.

07-07-2011, 08:12 AM	#7
Sledneck is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 12-04-05 Location: Wantagh, NY	A-1 steak sauce , it's not just for brisket any more __________________ [SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"][URL="http://bbqilluminati.blogspot.com"]BBQ Illuminati Blog[/URL][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE] [B][COLOR="Blue"][B]Disclaimer: The poster does not take any responsibility for any bad feelings or sense of exclusion that the reader of this post may have-whether real or imagined. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster of this thread would like to also remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.[/B][/COLOR][/B]

07-06-2011, 11:13 PM	#3
Just Pulin' Pork is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 03-08-08 Location: Overland Park Kansas	Bob great topic hope people chime in! The best we have done in pork is 2nd out of 192 at Lenexa last year, looking at the pics recently it looked good. Comp BBQ I think is becoming a coin toss weekend and week out!

07-07-2011, 07:12 AM	#4
goodbuddiesbbq is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 11-24-09 Location: Cleveland, Ohio	2 - 2nd 1 - 3rd 1 - 4th 1 - 6th In our last 5 events in pork....before our most recent changes...our 5 previous contests in pork were as follows: 9th 10th 6th 28th 29th Changes: We got really salty on our rub and painted our pieces with super sweet sauce, both are our own recipe. I can't give any more specific information or I'll have to answer to Top Men. It literally has gone from easily our worst category to arguably our best.

07-07-2011, 09:18 AM	#8
Plowboy somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 10-09-06 Location: Blue Springs, MO	I think it has changed for sure. I've been doing the same pork for six years and have had great results including 5th place pork TOY, Butt to Butt 11 Champion, Butt to Butt 12 Reserve Champion, Great American 1st Place, American Royal 1st Place, and several contest 1st place finishes. In 2008-2009 a pork call wasn't even a question. I could always count on a call and most of the time a high call. It was money. Now, I'm mostly miss and sometimes a low hit. Made a few major changes this last weekend and hit 2nd place with a 172+. Still using my tried and true injection, though. Ancient Chinese secret... unless you've taken one of my classes! Good luck finding your new path. Darren of Iowa's Smokey D's and I have been talking "lost pork" this last month. Like me, he's cooked the same pork for years with strong results. When your go to recipe isn't hitting, you feel like a rookie cook again and don't know where to go next. It is like ground zero. __________________ Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels) Save a hog, ride a plowboy! www.plowboysbbq.com Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances) FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler

07-07-2011, 09:22 AM	#9
Balls Casten is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 01-04-09 Location: Johnston, Ia	Our neighbor at Whiting made the same comment. __________________ Specialization in bipolar, self-injury, and OCD

07-07-2011, 09:43 AM	#10
WineMaster Babbling Farker Join Date: 01-16-07 Location: Southern MN	So is it trending more to a Sauce entry? VS Texture and Bark __________________ Dan MJH From Backyard Bomber BBQ -- Junior YS 640 Comp 22.5 Weber Kettle Blue Thermopen Comp Team Wine & Swine

07-07-2011, 10:22 AM	#11
carlyle is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 10-06-10 Location: Owatonna, MN	This is a puzzle since the judging criteria have not changed. Be interesting to know if you ran into some of the same judges contest to contest. KCBS judges tracking still not in place and running. I would be surprised if there was an easy obvious answer here. Probably a mix of reasons plus luck ( unluck) of the draw about what table you were judged at. Would be good to know what the actual scores were to see where you were losing points. __________________ Carlyle, KCBS, CBJ, Organizer ( Judge Chair)

07-07-2011, 10:29 AM	#12
Lake Dogs Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 07-14-09 Location: Lake Sinclair, GA Name/Nickname : Hance	Is it possible that with the popularity in competition bbq growing that the average team is significantly better than you'd see a few years ago? If so, then it is going to be more of a "which table you land on" type of thing. That's a question for judges; the ones who've judged the same competitions over the last 8+- years. What's changed? __________________ Hance - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from darn near anywhere) My competition daze are probably behind me now; I pretty much cook for family, friends, and frankly the peace and solitude I get from smokin' on an offset... Was Lang 84DX, now Bubba Grills 250R and many Weber grills

07-07-2011, 12:48 PM	#14
luckyduk Full Fledged Farker Join Date: 05-11-10 Location: Waverly,Iowa	Maybe judges are getting tired of the same rubs,sauces,etc with many entries....need some way to differentiate your entry in a good way? As for me, pork has taken over chicken as my worst category I have been receiving okay taste scores and terrible tenderness even when I have cooked to different temps in different contests. Going back to the KISS method with a really good sauce __________________ Justin- Lucky's Q, 2 Stumps Stretch's Last edited by luckyduk; 07-07-2011 at 12:51 PM.. Reason: added

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