Interesting article on competition que...

[jmoney7269]

Good read.

[MilitantSquatter]

I think it was a good read....

[landarc]

Warning: Opinion about to be stated with no basis of fact.

I think restaurants do far more to dilute the traditions of BBQ than competition BBQ has ever done.

[Muzzlebrake]

Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice

The referenced article, while being an interesting read, plays well in Memphis but not so well in Poughkeepsie or other areas.

Opinions are like a$$ holes, everyone has one; just some are larger than others. From a perspective of a small area of the US you get the opinion that theirs is the best, and it is, at that point in time and space. I can assure you that the stuff served in Memphis would not pass muster in Lexington and vice versus ; and the stuff served in NEW YORK CITY is bad dog food everywhere else (that’s an opinion).

Easy on Po-Town, we're not biased one way or another and please tell me you said that about NYC tongue in cheek.

Originally Posted by Vince RnQ

There was one restaurant there that always had a line of people waiting to be seated and it made me laugh because the food at that place wasn't any better or worse than a dozen other places within a 5 minute drive.

That's what I'm talking about. If you see a line at a pizza place in NYC it's probably tourists going where the bus driver told them to go get "the best". More than likely you can't throw a rock without hitting another place with stuff as good or better and no line.

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

The pulled pork (from either the shoulder or whole hog) has wonderful bark, but it's not tough. It's spiced wonderfully and doesnt need sauce. The BBQ stands alone, on it's own, and could be a meal all by itself (no need for sides, or buns, or SAUCE). Frankly, IMHO, if you haven't experienced this, you're missing out.

Whether you take it seriously (as perhaps the KCBSesque folks apparently do) or are there to socialize (try MBN; 2 folks dont cut it),

I can remember the first time I walked into a little roadside BBQ place and had that experience you are talking about. You're right if you haven't had it, you're missing out.

Are the MBN folks really not that serious? I understand the much bigger party atmosphere and the bigger teams and all but I would think that with the greater expense they would be very serious about what they are doing. I know that Myron, Melissa and Chris Lilly come from MIM/MBN backgrounds and they are serious fierce competitors. I do remember meeting Melissa at the Jack a few years ago and she laughed about us KCBS being scared to come into someone's site.

[sitnfat]

I haven't had Pats or Carey's BBQ yet. Probably wont eat Martins but I will drive up by and stop at Peg leg. My good friend owns a local BBQ joint. My sister and I cater out of our family winery and I sell a hand full of times a year. Our prices are higher because we lean a little more towards a contest flavor. We don't want to lose money so we charge more. People don't bat an eye at the price especially if they have had it before. I'm 3-5 bucks higher per pound on pork and brisket. My buddy with the b a joint tried my BBQ for the first time and his words were. Don't open a BBQ joint I got kids to feed. They need to feed the fire (no pun intended) on the old school style. They have way more over head. Did they word it correctly I don't think so. They may loose some competition cook business but in the end they may gain some new customers.

[Haastyle]

I enjoyed the read. Here's what I got. They don't like KCBS. The drive to win is pushing most people to cook the same way which isn't his way so they don't like it. They see that style creeping over into other competitoin circuits. His weekend parties used to be more fun. That there is a newly perceived notion in the public's eye that bbq is suppose to taste a certain way. -I actually agree with that ides of theirs. For me if its good its good but to tell me it has to taste a certain way is so French, and I ain't flipping French.

Another thing I won't bash them on for lashing back at KCBS and its cookers is they are passionate people. Passionate about BBQ, it obvious. And when a passionate person is told that their product isn't up to specs, the one they make every single day.... It can't finish top 50%, that joe schmoe and his wife are pumping out better stuff, we tasted it and judged you that way on it.... That will hit anyone who cares about what they do hard and close to the heart. Now I don't doubt for one second they have a fine product, And if you don't want to change you shouldn't have to. But in that same breath things change for two reasons only. One: is things end because they are bad, the second reason: is something came along thats better. And again, that idea that "the something better" isn't their something... sucks. It ticks them off. I'm OK with that too.

But I definately agree that TELLING people and judges how things should taste and THAT IDEA of flavor profile is defined as what good is, or what REAL is..... thats not good. Apperance, texture, tenderness, those are tangible traits you can quantifiy with a ruler if you want. Flavor is a whole new ball game.

[TailGateJoecom]

Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice

....Opinions are like a$$ holes, everyone has one; just some are larger than others. From a perspective of a small area of the US you get the opinion that theirs is the best, and it is, at that point in time and space. I can assure you that the stuff served in Memphis would not pass muster in Lexington and vice versus ; and the stuff served in NEW YORK CITY is bad dog food everywhere else (that’s an opinion).
........

[TailGateJoecom]

Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake

......That's what I'm talking about. If you see a line at a pizza place in NYC it's probably tourists going where the bus driver told them to go get "the best". More than likely you can't throw a rock without hitting another place with stuff as good or better and no line.....

There are a few places that are worth the wait, like Totonno's in Coney Island. Grimaldi's under the Brooklyn Bridge used to be one of those places. But then Patsy sold it and it began to slip. The funny thing is now the situation with tour buses like you mentioned. Patsy sold his place to some guy, the guy ended up a few years later getting tossed from the building for not paying rent and taxes, and opened shop up the block. Patsy came back, reopened in his original spot under a new name, Juliana's, and the crazy lines of Asian tourists are none the wiser and wait in line at the new Grimaldi's up the block while you can walk in to Juliana's a few storefronts down and get what people up the block are thinking they will get by waiting in line at the wrong place, lol.

Sorry, i know a bit off topic, but I am a bit of a pizza snob so it doesn't take much to get me going when the subject comes up.

[Gowan]

I enjoyed the article, and as a restaurateur I understand where they are coming from, and as a judge and competitor I agree with some points and disagree with others.

One aspect that I think should be pointed out that hasn't been touched on is this:

KCBS is not responsible for the shift in taste to sweet heavily sauced BBQ - companies like Kraft are.

The public's taste has been influenced far more by what they buy in the condiment aisle at their local grocery than by anything that goes on at a BBQ competition, and today's judges grew up eating gallons of Open Pit, KC Masterpiece and the other corn syrup laden products long before they became CBJs.

As a society we have become addicted to sweet foods - that isn't something you can lay at the door of any BBQ sanctioning body.

[The Cosmic Pig]

....Opinions are like a$$ holes, everyone has one.

My mother-in-law doesn't; they sowed hers shut when they did her colostomy...

[Lake Dogs]

Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake

Are the MBN folks really not that serious? I understand the much bigger party atmosphere and the bigger teams and all but I would think that with the greater expense they would be very serious about what they are doing. I know that Myron, Melissa and Chris Lilly come from MIM/MBN backgrounds and they are serious fierce competitors. I do remember meeting Melissa at the Jack a few years ago and she laughed about us KCBS being scared to come into someone's site.

I've only competed in a couple of KCBS competitions, so it's tough for me to gauge the difference... In MIM/MBN, noobies tend to party like no tomorrow and have a tough time making the show; literally. Experienced MBNers tend to party pretty good, but settle in and have some shift things going on, but generally even with "the show" it's taken fairly light hearted and upbeat, so yeah, it probably is a little less serious (but absolutely just as competitive).

Competitor fierce; you bet; but not wound very tight... I mean, my goofy small team has a tradition of doing tequila shots just before each series of shows... I mean, it's Patron; someone has to drink it! It's more a "relax and enjoy the ride" thing...

Perhaps it's the "garnish factor". While KCBS guys are getting anal retentive getting that garnish just perfect in the box (Friday evening), the MBN guys are having another beer and telling another lie...

<JOKE>

[Podge]

Originally Posted by Haastyle

I enjoyed the read. Here's what I got. They don't like KCBS. The drive to win is pushing most people to cook the same way which isn't his way so they don't like it. They see that style creeping over into other competitoin circuits. His weekend parties used to be more fun. That there is a newly perceived notion in the public's eye that bbq is suppose to taste a certain way. -I actually agree with that ides of theirs. For me if its good its good but to tell me it has to taste a certain way is so French, and I ain't flipping French.

Another thing I won't bash them on for lashing back at KCBS and its cookers is they are passionate people. Passionate about BBQ, it obvious. And when a passionate person is told that their product isn't up to specs, the one they make every single day.... It can't finish top 50%, that joe schmoe and his wife are pumping out better stuff, we tasted it and judged you that way on it.... That will hit anyone who cares about what they do hard and close to the heart. Now I don't doubt for one second they have a fine product, And if you don't want to change you shouldn't have to. But in that same breath things change for two reasons only. One: is things end because they are bad, the second reason: is something came along thats better. And again, that idea that "the something better" isn't their something... sucks. It ticks them off. I'm OK with that too.

But I definately agree that TELLING people and judges how things should taste and THAT IDEA of flavor profile is defined as what good is, or what REAL is..... thats not good. Apperance, texture, tenderness, those are tangible traits you can quantifiy with a ruler if you want. Flavor is a whole new ball game.

Totally agree.. very well said !

[Smoke'n Ice]

Originally Posted by Muzzlebrake

Easy on Po-Town, we're not biased one way or another and please tell me you said that about NYC tongue in cheek.

Actually, I used it to make a point. Remember the commercial for sauce and the tag line was "Made in New York City?, Git a Rope". The intent was to say that the sauce, I think Pace, was real downhome and others were just imitator wanabes.

It just illustrates that other factors, to include public preception, come into the equation of what makes good bbq for each person and region and could be as simple as "what is acceptable everywhere." While not being the best, it is the acceptable NORM.

[bignburlyman]

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

I think what they were saying was that KCBS has had an influence. I know in 2004, 2005, we never saw money muscle come across an MIM table; never. The pork was pulled, and juicy, sometimes had a little bit of sauce, tender, not sliced/cut, and awesome. Times however they are a changin'.

When I started judging KCBS contests 15 years or so ago, there was never slices of any kind in a pork box. And usually not even chunks, everything was pulled/chopped. I think the first guy that put slices in must have surprised the judges so much and won handily that the word got out and everyone started doing it. Also when I started judging sauce was used much less than today. I mean these days people are even saucing brisket heavily.

[dosvans]

Originally Posted by Haastyle

But I definately agree that TELLING people and judges how things should taste and THAT IDEA of flavor profile is defined as what good is, or what REAL is..... thats not good. Apperance, texture, tenderness, those are tangible traits you can quantifiy with a ruler if you want. Flavor is a whole new ball game.

I don't know of any KCBS CBJ class that dictates taste for a specific meat, or anyone that dictates taste in the Judges tent. How to determine tenderness yes, but not taste. I think those that are implying such are way off base.