Heat Lamp

Mister Bob · 06-26-2010, 07:59 PM

What is the KCBS rule regarding working under a heat lamp while preparing meat for turn in boxes?

Candy Sue · 06-27-2010, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Bob

What is the KCBS rule regarding working under a heat lamp while preparing meat for turn in boxes?

Not Legal! Rule No. 6....Gas and electric heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or holding.

Ford · 06-27-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candy Sue

Not Legal! Rule No. 6....Gas and electric heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or holding.

Candy - not to be nick picking but it's not cooking or holding from a heat lamp. You are prepping the meat for the box. I believe that is different than holding or cooking. Looks like another rep advisory from the BOD is needed on this one.

Good question Mister Bob. Hope it comes up at the next BOD meeting considering we have a ruling from a BOD member.

Smoke'n Ice · 06-27-2010, 06:22 PM

Damn, in OK & TX we just do it in the sun, have to worry about over cooking though.

06-27-2010, 10:58 PM

Technically if you're not cooking you're "holding", at least in customary culinary circles I've traveled in. The act of "holding" doesn't always involve the traditional electric heat box and a heat lamp can be used to "hold" items while in transit, service or later use. So "technically" according to the current rules I would guess the BOD would hold it illegal. But who knows. lol, Next thing you know someone will want to use a blow torch on their sauce for "color". We'll have to start a "slippery slope thread".

KC_Bobby · 06-28-2010, 09:25 AM

My interpretation is only my interpretation so this is merely my belief but any electronic device that's purpose is to conduct heat is illegal.
100 watt light bulb - OK
250 watt light bulb - not OK - would you prep your uncooked meat under this light?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbqpitstop

Next thing you know someone will want to use a blow torch on their sauce for "color". We'll have to start a "slippery slope thread".

Pretty sure we've already had a few of those threads.

Now if the blow torch is fueled by pellets, coal or wood I guess it would be legal.

Smokedelic · 06-28-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford

Candy - not to be nick picking but it's not cooking or holding from a heat lamp. You are prepping the meat for the box. I believe that is different than holding or cooking. Looks like another rep advisory from the BOD is needed on this one.

Good question Mister Bob. Hope it comes up at the next BOD meeting considering we have a ruling from a BOD member.

If you aren't holding temp with a heat lamp, what are you doing with it?

Heat lamps are used in the food world to keep the temperature of what you put under it from dropping as rapidly as it would with out the application of heat. So, if that's not a form of "holding", I'd like to hear your opinion as to why.

Ford · 06-29-2010, 05:25 AM

All good points. I have asked the BOD by email to make an official ruling. What I find most interesting is the post here on bulb power. So I have some great halogen lights on a stand. They throw off enough heat to warm up an enclosed EZUP. Legal or not? Where do you draw the line? What's the definition of a heat lamp?

Now that the question is out there it's up to the BOD in my mind to tell us by rep advisory if it's legal or not. Hope a few others also ask the BOD on this. I'd sure hate for a rep to DQ somebody because of a post here. And for the record my concern is that one BOD member has made a ruling here on this thread. Also for the record I think it's a bad idea to outlaw heat lamps during box prep and that will be very difficult to enforce. Don't make a rule you can't enforce.

Smoke'n Ice · 06-29-2010, 07:33 AM

6) Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets or charcoal. Gas and electric heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or holding.

The above is taken from the current rules. There is nothing ambiguous in this rule and to ask for a rep advisory to clarify is somewhat asinine. Heat lamps which, typically run on electricity, serve only on purpose in the food industry, they provide an open air heat source for holding food at an elevated temperature.

There are so many ways for a person to skew the rules to gain a perceived edge that we would need a rule book 6 inches thick just to cover a part of them. This is a sport or hobby or whatever that is basically a gentleman’s agreement enforcement of the published rules. If someone wants to use a heat lamp to hold their meat during prep then do so in the trailer with the door closed. You will be the only one to know you cheated. If you can live with that, then go for it but remember, if you are caught, the gentleman’s agreement stipulates the punishment.

Smokedelic · 06-29-2010, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford

Also for the record I think it's a bad idea to outlaw heat lamps during box prep and that will be very difficult to enforce. Don't make a rule you can't enforce.

Why is it a bad idea to outlaw heat lamps during box prep?

Many of the current KCBS rules regarding meat preparation are very difficult/impossible to enforce. It is up to the individual cook to know, understand and follow the rules. Those that want to cheat will find a way to cheat no matter what KCBS does. If you want strict enforcement of the rules, then let's do away with bringing trailers and RVs to contests, so everyone has to cook out in the open. Personally, I'll vote to stick with the honor system we use now.

As Mack stated, the current rules are unambiguous on the use of an electric heat source to hold the temperature of the meat, so what exactly needs to be ruled on here?

Candy Sue · 06-29-2010, 09:58 AM

I think stainless steel tables should be banned too. The metal will suck the heat out of meat faster than a heat lamp could put it back in!

Ford, I 100% agree that KCBS shouldn't have unenforceable rules. But, through time, the rules have evolved reactively in response to cookers' actions. And in some instances the rules contradict each other. I personally believe that food handling and safety rules should trump any other rule out there.

Just as a cma caveat here, I'm speaking as a cook not a board member. But as the head of the rules committee, you better believe that I read and chew on all postings regarding rules. Please keep it coming!

KC_Bobby · 06-29-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford

What I find most interesting is the post here on bulb power. So I have some great halogen lights on a stand. They throw off enough heat to warm up an enclosed EZUP. Legal or not? Where do you draw the line? What's the definition of a heat lamp?

Good point - looking back I shouldn't have used those examples and just used a reference that if it's not practical to prep raw meat under them (due to heat given off), it's probably questionable.

Now typing that I realize it's a huge gray area - especially based on time of the year and if a team is under an ez up or in a trailer. As I think it's fairly common for teams to use halogen lights to prep under in the spring and fall.

How about this gray area - if a team goes out to buy a specific light that gives off heat specifically to use while box prep ... maybe they should have to use that light while prepping raw meat on a July afternoon in their EZ up too

moocow · 06-29-2010, 11:35 AM

There is no need for a heat lamp, just keep your fancy trailers at about 140 degrees inside! That would be about the same temp as under a tent in the middle of July. I am not sure where I stand on this issue. May be the rule should be you can use the heat lamp starting 10 Minuets before that categories turn in time. That way you can make sure they are only prepping boxes and not cooking with it. Not sure most contest could handle the additional electrical requirements if every one turned them on at the same time.

Mister Bob · 06-29-2010, 01:25 PM

Well it looks like I started a little controversy with my heat lamp question, which I guess is a good thing. It most CERTAINLY was not my intention to suggest that I, or anyone else, would be interested in cheating by using one if it's against the rules, enforceable or not.

I know that some of the rules are a little ambiguous and some not so easily enforced. For instance, you can cook your sauce with any heat source, correct? At home...at the comp? Right up until it hits the meat?

I'll wait for a ruling from the BOD and abide by their decision and enjoy everyone else's opinions in the mean time. Please keep them coming.

Smoke'n Ice · 06-29-2010, 03:47 PM

I'm sorry and I may be dense, but, does not the use of the word heat fit into the rule without clarification. ELECTRIC HEAT lamp and ELECTRIC HEAT source seem to me to be syn·on·y·mous which is defined as:
1 : having the character of a synomym; also : alike in meaning or significance
2 : having the same connotations, implications, or reference

Asking for a BOD ruling is akin to asking the Supreme Court to rule on the meaning of "We the people."

06-26-2010, 07:59 PM	#1
Mister Bob Babbling Farker Join Date: 06-15-09 Location: Scituate, RI	Heat Lamp What is the KCBS rule regarding working under a heat lamp while preparing meat for turn in boxes?

06-29-2010, 05:25 AM	#8
Ford is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 04-14-07 Location: Lakeland Florida	All good points. I have asked the BOD by email to make an official ruling. What I find most interesting is the post here on bulb power. So I have some great halogen lights on a stand. They throw off enough heat to warm up an enclosed EZUP. Legal or not? Where do you draw the line? What's the definition of a heat lamp? Now that the question is out there it's up to the BOD in my mind to tell us by rep advisory if it's legal or not. Hope a few others also ask the BOD on this. I'd sure hate for a rep to DQ somebody because of a post here. And for the record my concern is that one BOD member has made a ruling here on this thread. Also for the record I think it's a bad idea to outlaw heat lamps during box prep and that will be very difficult to enforce. Don't make a rule you can't enforce. __________________ Ford Retired competition cook. BBQ mentor.

06-29-2010, 11:35 AM	#13
moocow is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 07-31-08 Location: Belton, mo	There is no need for a heat lamp, just keep your fancy trailers at about 140 degrees inside! That would be about the same temp as under a tent in the middle of July. I am not sure where I stand on this issue. May be the rule should be you can use the heat lamp starting 10 Minuets before that categories turn in time. That way you can make sure they are only prepping boxes and not cooking with it. Not sure most contest could handle the additional electrical requirements if every one turned them on at the same time. __________________ -Shane Petzold- -MooCow BBQ team- -Facilities and equipment manager at Operation BBQ Relief- -[URL="http://www.moocowbbq.com"]www.moocowbbq.com[/URL]- -Home of the Make it Take it Drum Class- -kCBS/ CBJ- - Stoker powered stainless steel cabinet smoker-Mini & 3 Regular UDS-[B][COLOR=Blue]BLUE [/COLOR][/B]Weber OTG-Saffire ceramic grill-26" plow disc-Green mountain pellet -16' Stealth Competition trailer-

06-29-2010, 01:25 PM	#14
Mister Bob Babbling Farker Join Date: 06-15-09 Location: Scituate, RI	Heat Lamp Well it looks like I started a little controversy with my heat lamp question, which I guess is a good thing. It most CERTAINLY was not my intention to suggest that I, or anyone else, would be interested in cheating by using one if it's against the rules, enforceable or not. I know that some of the rules are a little ambiguous and some not so easily enforced. For instance, you can cook your sauce with any heat source, correct? At home...at the comp? Right up until it hits the meat? I'll wait for a ruling from the BOD and abide by their decision and enjoy everyone else's opinions in the mean time. Please keep them coming. __________________ Mister Bob, Pitmaster - Smokestack Lightning, Bad Ass Barbecue. KCBS CBJ #31759 - IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller

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06-27-2010, 06:22 PM	#4
Smoke'n Ice is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 05-08-09 Location: Plano, TX	Damn, in OK & TX we just do it in the sun, have to worry about over cooking though.

06-27-2010, 10:58 PM	#5
bbqpitstop Guest	Technically if you're not cooking you're "holding", at least in customary culinary circles I've traveled in. The act of "holding" doesn't always involve the traditional electric heat box and a heat lamp can be used to "hold" items while in transit, service or later use. So "technically" according to the current rules I would guess the BOD would hold it illegal. But who knows. lol, Next thing you know someone will want to use a blow torch on their sauce for "color". We'll have to start a "slippery slope thread".

06-29-2010, 07:33 AM	#9
Smoke'n Ice is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 05-08-09 Location: Plano, TX	6) Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets or charcoal. Gas and electric heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or holding. The above is taken from the current rules. There is nothing ambiguous in this rule and to ask for a rep advisory to clarify is somewhat asinine. Heat lamps which, typically run on electricity, serve only on purpose in the food industry, they provide an open air heat source for holding food at an elevated temperature. There are so many ways for a person to skew the rules to gain a perceived edge that we would need a rule book 6 inches thick just to cover a part of them. This is a sport or hobby or whatever that is basically a gentleman’s agreement enforcement of the published rules. If someone wants to use a heat lamp to hold their meat during prep then do so in the trailer with the door closed. You will be the only one to know you cheated. If you can live with that, then go for it but remember, if you are caught, the gentleman’s agreement stipulates the punishment.

06-29-2010, 09:58 AM	#11
Candy Sue is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 09-03-09 Location: Pine Bluff, AR	I think stainless steel tables should be banned too. The metal will suck the heat out of meat faster than a heat lamp could put it back in! Ford, I 100% agree that KCBS shouldn't have unenforceable rules. But, through time, the rules have evolved reactively in response to cookers' actions. And in some instances the rules contradict each other. I personally believe that food handling and safety rules should trump any other rule out there. Just as a cma caveat here, I'm speaking as a cook not a board member. But as the head of the rules committee, you better believe that I read and chew on all postings regarding rules. Please keep it coming!

06-29-2010, 03:47 PM	#15
Smoke'n Ice is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 05-08-09 Location: Plano, TX	I'm sorry and I may be dense, but, does not the use of the word heat fit into the rule without clarification. ELECTRIC HEAT lamp and ELECTRIC HEAT source seem to me to be syn·on·y·mous which is defined as: 1 : having the character of a synomym; also : alike in meaning or significance 2 : having the same connotations, implications, or reference Asking for a BOD ruling is akin to asking the Supreme Court to rule on the meaning of "We the people."