MMMM.. BRISKET..
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.  



Our Homepage Donation to Forum Overhead Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Amazon Affiliate
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Catering, Food Handling and Awareness > Catering, Vending and Cooking For The Masses.

Notices

Catering, Vending and Cooking For The Masses. this forum is OnTopic. A resource to help with catering, vending and just cooking for large parties. Topics to include Getting Started, Ethics, Marketing, Catering resources, Formulas and recipes for cooking for large groups.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-01-2018, 04:35 PM   #1
chapman11
Found some matches.

 
Join Date: 08-16-15
Location: Melbourne, FL
Name/Nickname : Pineapple
Default Selling pork butt to a restaurant

Just wanted to see if anyone has been asked to see to a restaurant and what they have charged for pork butt. I have been asked to provide 6 - 8 butts a week and still working on a cost. Currently paying $1.60 - $1.75 a pound and then you have the cost of making it. Any suggestions?
chapman11 is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 10-01-2018, 05:14 PM   #2
TheBBQJew
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Join Date: 08-19-18
Location: New York, NY
Name/Nickname : BBQ Jew
Default

Do you have an inspected commercial kitchen to cook in? If not it’s illegal.
TheBBQJew is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Old 10-01-2018, 05:28 PM   #3
jemezspring
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 10-09-09
Location: Chicago Proper
Default

That wasn't his question but couldn't he cook it at the restaurant?
jemezspring is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Old 10-01-2018, 05:47 PM   #4
chapman11
Found some matches.

 
Join Date: 08-16-15
Location: Melbourne, FL
Name/Nickname : Pineapple
Default

I do not but can cook at the restaurant for sure. Thanks for the feedback as I am uncertain on a few things
chapman11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2018, 05:58 PM   #5
Jason TQ
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
Jason TQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-10-11
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chapman11 View Post
I do not but can cook at the restaurant for sure. Thanks for the feedback as I am uncertain on a few things
Call the local health department. Just start there as it will make life easier.

You can't just walk into someone's kitchen and cook legally without be an employee or licensed contractor, etc. So simply call the health department as they have all the right answers and are there to help .

If you just want straight pricing info without legal ramifications that is cool and there is also a Catering and Vending part of the forum for ideas on pricing.
__________________
-Jason
I didn't choose D-Canoe life..........
SF 30x70
3 Hunsaker Drums
Big Green Egg XL
Pitboss Copperhead 5
2 Pitboss Whiskey Stills,
Pitboss Tailgater, Oklahoma Joe Bronco
Jason TQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Old 10-01-2018, 06:51 PM   #6
Joshw
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 09-25-17
Location: Oklahoma
Default

There is much more to it than what you are paying for raw meat. You will have roughly 50% loss by the time it is cooked. Then you have the cost of seasonings, cooking fuel, packaging, gas for going and buying ingredients, and going to and from the restaurant, and then there is how much you think your time is worth. You should start by researching how to calculate food costs, if you don't know how to do that, you won't know what to charge and be profitable.

As others have mentioned, you should check out local laws on selling perishable food, before going down this road. There are a lot risks, selling illegally, and there is a lot of expense to to do it legally. If you can cook at the restaurant, I would just tell the guy, to buy the supplies, and hire you to work for him once a week to cook. Then you can just quote him an hourly wage for doing the work.
Joshw is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Old 10-01-2018, 06:51 PM   #7
thirdeye
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
thirdeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-14-06
Location: At home on the range in Wyoming
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason TQ View Post
Call the local health department. Just start there as it will make life easier.

You can't just walk into someone's kitchen and cook legally without be an employee or licensed contractor, etc. So simply call the health department as they have all the right answers and are there to help .

If you just want straight pricing info without legal ramifications that is cool and there is also a Catering and Vending part of the forum for ideas on pricing.
This is the ticket.

My city has some weird regulations for businesses. For example a guy I know that owns a restaurant and was approved for catering remote locations wanted to sell BBQ on Friday and Saturday only at the restaurant (some to go by the pound). However he was not allowed to cook on his trailer mounted smoker in the parking lot without several permits... health department and fire department because they said that would have been a permanent location.

The same guy owned a supply company in an adjoining town 6 miles from his restaurant, and he was legal to cook on his pit there (because he was an approved caterer), as long as the meat was prepped in an approved kitchen, and clean-up in an approved kitchen.... which he had at the restaurant.
__________________
~thirdeye~

KCBS - CBJ & CTC
Big Green Eggs, Big Drum Smokers, Big Chiefs, Weber Smokey Joe "Custom Tall Boy"
Oil Patch Horizontal

Visit my Cookin' Site by clicking HERE
Barbecue is not rocket surgery
thirdeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Old 10-01-2018, 07:11 PM   #8
IamMadMan
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Join Date: 07-30-11
Location: Pemberton, New Jersey
Default

As other have pointed out, you should contact the local health department and see where to start.



Some States / Counties require a NSF rated smoker to cook in, even if it's at the restaurant. You should also consider Insurance issues, one person claims they got ill and you could lose everything.


Not to burst your bubble, but Here is some additional food for thought....




Without being incorporated as a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC), having food service liability insurance, all the proper permits, licensees, certifications, and required inspections, that you are taking a huge financial risk without limits.

No one should engage in the food business without being incorporated as a legitimate business. Without being incorporated you and all of your assets owned by you and your family are up for grabs in a lawsuit. Incorporating separates you and your personal assets from those of the recognized corporate entity. In a lawsuit they can sue the corporation but cannot come after you unless you blatantly caused harm as an individual.

By ignoring these and not investigating the legal requirements for any event, you are putting yourself at a great risk. Ignorance of the laws and regulations are not a defense, in fact it will just help to build a stronger case against you if something should go wrong. More importantly, something doesn't actually have to go wrong, one only needs to claim they got ill from your food.



First: Are you incorporated as a Limited Liability Corporation?

Second: Will you be operating within State, Local, and Health Department regulations?
Do you have a business license, a food handlers permit, and will you prepare the food in a health department approved and inspected commercial kitchen?

Third: Do you have the proper liability insurance to cover you and the patrons?

Fourth and lastly... are you Serve-Safe Certified?


Be aware that without these qualifications and being fully covered with insurance, you are taking a huge huge risk both personally and financially.

Without proper procedure and requirements, there are too many risks and not enough rewards. What legal ramifications are you willing to endure should this become an issue of someone getting ill?
Trying to sneak past the "government" can lead to way too many bad things for you. This is a risk that anyone with common sense should never consider taking.

How much of your personal assets are you willing to risk due to food-borne illness issues should they occur?
Or if someone claims they became ill sometime after eating your food. If a civil suit is brought against you because of this claim, you could lose your home, your savings, everything you own, and even your investments.

It might be difficult to prove with a single case, but what if someone who handles the food in the chain accidentally contaminates something. You will have more than one case from the event. Then you have an unlicensed food handler, who is not using a state approved and inspected kitchen, and who has failed to get all the required permits, certifications, licenses, and local inspections.

It's not just the fines and penalties from the state and local authorities for operating illegally, but when you have a civil suit filed the tables turn. Just the fact that you ignored all the required permits, licenses, certifications, and inspections are stacked against you. Couple that with many states who do not elect judges, but rather politically appoint them; then you can have an inexperienced judge in law who has their own interpretation or opinion of the law to deal with. Some of these appointed judges do not know the law and will make decisions based on personal opinions.

As stated above the extreme fines and penalties imposed by the state, county, and local authorities can't be argued in a court of law, ignorance of them just isn't a feasible defense. Then which can be exorbitant, even if they can't prove the case. This is why many corporations find it easier just to settle out of court than run the legal gamut.

You also have many corporations that have tried to fight a case of stupidity in court and have lost millions trying to win. Look at the case of a patron who ordered hot coffee and drank it while operating a motor vehicle. Consequently they spilled hot coffee on themselves as a direct result of their own personal action. Yet a good lawyer put the blame on the corporation, and they successfully sued for over a million dollars. Common sense does not prevail in a litigious society.

My intent is not to discourage you, but to point out the possible ramifications of this type of event without the proper "coverage", "licenses", "certifications" and "permits".

Some think they have a legal defense because:

Some would say that they are doing this as a hired hand and they should be covered under the companies / organizations insurance policy. Not true, unless you are getting a weekly paycheck and paying into workman's compensation, disability insurance, state and federal taxes, then you are not an employee. If you are paying these taxes you could be considered an employee, but you could also be held personally liable as a co-defendant because you used your personal equipment to cook the food.

Secondly if you are using your own equipment to cook with, many states view this as a sub-contractor status where YOU are responsible for all of your own permits, licenses, and liability insurance. So again, you have legal fees to defend a lawsuit, coupled with fines and penalties imposed by the state, county, and local authorities.

Most importantly, if you do this for a friend you trust, they may not sue you, but then you have to worry about the many others who will be in attendance. Some might be looking for an easy way to make a quick buck. How luck do you feel?

But yet others will claim being free from everything because they are selling food by the tray. However unless you are legally licensed to sell cold / frozen foods, then you have lost control of the food until it was served;
You are responsible to properly prepare, maintain, and/or serve food fit for human consumption.
You are responsible to properly take the temperature of the food at the time of service.
You are responsible to ensure all persons were wearing gloves while prepping and serving the food.


It may be a one in a million case that someone becomes ill, but we live in a litigious society today. People make false claims all the time in an effort to sue for personal gain. If you are prepared to risk it ALL then go ahead. Otherwise walk away until they do the necessary diligence to cover them self.


This is a totally different thing than just cooking great BBQ for your family in your back yard for personal friends.

If you want to go into business then take the appropriate steps. If not the be prepared to accept all possible consequences.

It only takes one to claim you made them ill...... Think of Clint Eastwood in "Dirty Harry" - How Luck do You Feel Today?

http://wcti12.com/news/nation-world/...ption-got-sick

https://www.syracuse.com/news/index....ently_ill.html




As far as food preparation;
The kitchen in which food is prepared is subject to the Uniform Building Construction Code. To my knowledge, all 50 states use this code and even expand further upon it with even more local regulations. In general, the Uniform Building Code states: any kitchen that is used to prepare food that is not served immediately on premises must be to current local health codes. Also be aware that all parts of the building that has access to the kitchen must also meet those codes, not just the kitchen area.

A few other states allow for certain uses if your "APPROVED" kitchen is separate from the home, where you cannot pass from the approved kitchen into the home. In other words, you must completely leave the kitchen structure (pass outside) to access the the house, then you could possibly have that kitchen approved. This is not always the case, it is dependent upon your local authorities.


BBQ sold to the public goes under different rules than BBQ that is sold to a retailer that is resold. If you are selling to a retailer that is then reselling the food, you need to meet the USDA FSIS regulations and have to have a approved USDA facility and are subject to USDA sampling.


.
IamMadMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Old 10-01-2018, 09:10 PM   #9
SmokinAussie
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
SmokinAussie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-19-09
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Default

Wow. That all sounds just too hard.

Here's how it looks to me. Our OP is a backyarder who's impressed some local restaurant owner with his pork butts. The restaurant owner wants a small supply to put some pulled pork sammiches on the menu without having to get a smoker in his kitchen or something like that. So, the OP is wondering what he should charge for supplying this owner (on the side, cash in hand, no questions asked) for 6 to 8 butt's a week... which even for a backyarder with a smallish smoker is easy peasy.

Now I realise that regulation and litigation in the States is a thing, but realistically this is just basic free enterprise at it's simplest. WHAT should he charge on that basis if he decides to make an offer and not consider all this stuff above? ... which to be honest is enough to scare me out of doing it at all.

Cheers!
__________________
Still Smokin'

SmokinAussie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2018, 09:20 PM   #10
Jason TQ
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
Jason TQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-10-11
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAussie View Post
Wow. That all sounds just too hard.

Here's how it looks to me. Our OP is a backyarder who's impressed some local restaurant owner with his pork butts. The restaurant owner wants a small supply to put some pulled pork sammiches on the menu without having to get a smoker in his kitchen or something like that. So, the OP is wondering what he should charge for supplying this owner (on the side, cash in hand, no questions asked) for 6 to 8 butt's a week... which even for a backyarder with a smallish smoker is easy peasy.

Now I realise that regulation and litigation in the States is a thing, but realistically this is just basic free enterprise at it's simplest. WHAT should he charge on that basis if he decides to make an offer and not consider all this stuff above? ... which to be honest is enough to scare me out of doing it at all.

Cheers!
The easy answer is look at what the local bbq market is selling for.
__________________
-Jason
I didn't choose D-Canoe life..........
SF 30x70
3 Hunsaker Drums
Big Green Egg XL
Pitboss Copperhead 5
2 Pitboss Whiskey Stills,
Pitboss Tailgater, Oklahoma Joe Bronco
Jason TQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2018, 06:59 AM   #11
nachos4life
Take a breath!
 
Join Date: 01-15-13
Location: Indianapolis
Default

good info for the OP above...

I sell our bbq wholesale to a local pub; however, my business is licensed as a restaurant at the same address. We use it as our commissary. Lately pork has been anywhere from $1 to $1.45ish for us. We charge $7.50 per lb to the pub. BUT we also don't pay any rent or fees to use the place.
__________________
Black Metal BBQ, LLC.
nachos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from: --->
Old 10-02-2018, 03:47 PM   #12
kurtsara
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 07-27-07
Location: Minnesota
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachos4life View Post
good info for the OP above...

I sell our bbq wholesale to a local pub; however, my business is licensed as a restaurant at the same address. We use it as our commissary. Lately pork has been anywhere from $1 to $1.45ish for us. We charge $7.50 per lb to the pub. BUT we also don't pay any rent or fees to use the place.
$2.00 -$2.90 a pound, you are giving it away.
kurtsara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2018, 08:32 AM   #13
nachos4life
Take a breath!
 
Join Date: 01-15-13
Location: Indianapolis
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtsara View Post
$2.00 -$2.90 a pound, you are giving it away.
Actually since its in lieu of rent, it is a hell of a deal around here.
__________________
Black Metal BBQ, LLC.
nachos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2018, 02:04 PM   #14
Bbq Bubba
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Bbq Bubba's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-03-07
Location: New Baltimore, Mi.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurtsara View Post
$2.00 -$2.90 a pound, you are giving it away.
That is his cost....
At $7.50/lb your at about 33% food cost. Pretty nice for no overhead.
__________________
Owner and Chief Taco Builder @ The Wooden Valve
Beer Snob
I cook the #bestbrisketnorthoftexas. Get over it.
#detroitporkmafia
BBQ Person of the Year 2013
Bbq Bubba is offline   Reply With Quote
Thanks from:--->
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Forum Custom Search: Enter your Search text below. GOOGLE will search ONLY the BBQ Brethren Forum.
Custom search MAY not work(no display box) in some configurations of Internet Explorer. Please use compliant version of Firefox or Chrome.







All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts