General Tso's BBQ, Red Boat Fish Sauce, and San Francisco Brethren

Gore · 12-24-2011, 06:46 PM

I was in San Francisco for the AGU meeting the first week of December and had the good fortune to meet a number of Brethren at Phat Matt's. It was a nice time. I took a few pictures, but I had my cheapo back-up camera that doesn't work so well in low light. As it turned out, Ron_L also was in town, so it was really special. Some of these people need no introduction, as you recognize them from their avatar, like Landarc:

Martyleach and R2Egg2Q

Smokejumper,

and Ron_L

For some reason, I took these pictures when we got our food

and I waited for SirPorkaLot to get his food to take a picture, but by the time it showed up, I completely forgot

. I know there were others taking pics there, so I hope someone with a decent camera can fill in the details. What happened the next day is that Bob, Rob and I went to Mission Chinese. There were a number of great dishes, but what I really enjoyed was General Tso's veal breast. For anyone who has eaten Chinese food, you know that one of the most typical dishes to be found now is General Tso's chicken, which is usually a sweet-spicy dish (although I have had it twice in which it was sweet-sour). I think it has replaced completely the sweet-and-sour pork abomination that was probably the most popular American-Chinese dish. I say abomination because in America this dish never has a sour component at all, making it very one-dimensional (although great for kids and a guilty pleasure). Surprisingly, it is quite a different dish if ordered in Europe, where it is actually sweet-and-sour (a thinner, darker, non-fluorescing sauce is used) and the pork is a roast, rather than the fried pieces of pork that you typically find in America -- at least that is my experience. I was told this was probably the most popular "Chinese" dish in Europe, but it was quite different from our version having the same name. In any case, the veal breast at Mission Chinese was a nice variation and I especially liked the crispy outer coating. My thought was that when I got home I would give it a shot with burnt ends, which is what I did last weekend.

I began by seasoning up a couple of pork butts and a chuckie and doing an overnighter. I've wanted to do that for a while anyway.

Next morning, I took off the chuckie (you can forget about the pork for now) and chopped it up to make some faux burnt ends.

I then made a hot-sour sauce that is General-Tso-like:

In short, I mixed the following:

1/4 cup water
1 T soy sauce
1 T Apple cider vinegar (this was homemade, last year's batch and really good)
1 t Hoisin sauce
1 t Sriracha
1 t sesame oil (dark, although it probably doesn't matter)
1 T brown sugar
1 t cornstarch
1 T Red Boat Fish Sauce (thank you Smokejumper)
1 T ground ginger

I made a double batch, as I would need the other half later for a topping. Also, if you are making this, make sure you dissolve the cornstarch in the cold water first, before adding everything else, mix everything up and heat on the stove to thicken. There are lots of variations possible on the ingredients. What is critical is balancing the sweet and the sour. I especially want to put a plug in for the Red Boat Fish Sauce. This normally is not used in this dish, but I find it a great brightening agent.

Since I was doing a bit of experimentation, I mixed one of these batches with a healthy dose of Sweet Baby Rays and doused those cubes that I cut up. I put these on at 300* and made faux burnt ends. When these were finished, I plated them with some broccoli, added some Thai peppers and sesame seeds and the other half of the sauce.

I found General Tso's Burnt Ends to be much better than the chicken he's more famous for.

Later, I tried something a bit different. I again made up some sauce (same recipe as before, but I added some chili paste to the mix.

The sauce had a bit more body to it, but the balance was still very good (I adjust the Sriracha accordingly).

I put these together with some sliced green onions, and yellow pepper to make General Tso's Pulled Pork Sammie:

I must admit that the sauce did not work nearly as well on the pulled pork as it did on the beef, but it was still good.

colonel00 · 12-24-2011, 07:12 PM

No Nachos?!?!

Sammie looks good although I am not so sure how exactly you go about eating that thing.

martyleach · 12-24-2011, 07:15 PM

Looks great! I do want to see your face right after you chew up those uncooked Thai peppers......

Gore · 12-24-2011, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonel00

No Nachos?!?!

Sammie looks good although I am not so sure how exactly you go about eating that thing.

I just picked it up and ate it for lunch. It was surprisingly easy. It didn't leak out or anything, and not even very messy. Of course, I was pretty hungry and took big bites.

With regard to the nachos, I actually thought of that, ... and General Tso's cheeseburger. The problem is that it would have been three different tastes: sweet, hot and salty. It is rare to have three competing tastes and I wanted to keep things as authentic as possible.

It did get me wondering what exactly General Tso might put on his cheeseburger.

For Marty: I did take those peppers off. I know that they only put those on hoping that we eat one by accident, so they can all have a good laugh.

landarc · 12-24-2011, 07:42 PM

Very nice recap Gore and some great riffs on that great General Tso's Veal Breast dish we had at Mission Chinese. I like the sauce you worked up.

I also feel horrible when I order Sweet and Sour pork, even more so when the waitress gives me a disapproving glance.

morgaj1 · 12-24-2011, 07:47 PM

I will definitely be using this recipe soon. I guess that I will have to order some Red Boat, as it is not available locally. I like fish sauce (umami factor), but have not been pleased with what is available around here. BTW, what do you think General Tso might put on Spam?

bigabyte · 12-24-2011, 08:01 PM

That General Tso's looks great! A whole lot better than those other guys.

Have you washed all that left-coast stuff off of you yet?

hav · 12-24-2011, 08:02 PM

Man that sandwhich looks fantastic! I don't see how you could get that in your mouth.

SmokeJumper · 12-24-2011, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the brilliant flashbacks to the mini-bash and Mission Chinese. I really dig your Chinese inspired cook. I'd hit a whole platter of those Tso's burnt ends any day.

Moose · 12-24-2011, 08:46 PM

Thanks for sharing all of this, Gore. You really went the distance on this cook!

It's also nice to put a few faces to avatars, as only a few of us, like you and I actually put our real faces on them.

As an aside, I always eat at least 3 or 4 of those hot peppers with my General Tso's pizzas and nachos.

Al Czervik · 12-24-2011, 09:06 PM

Great post Gore! Both your GT Burnt Ends and PP Sammie look like winners. Not sure my system could handle those Thai peppers without a snowcone for the next day

, but I'd give them a nibble to find out . I also appreciate seeing the faces behind the avatars...

tish · 12-24-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hav

Man that sandwhich looks fantastic! I don't see how you could get that in your mouth.

^^^^
What he said!!

Ron_L · 12-24-2011, 09:48 PM

Wow! Nice job on the General Tso's, Gore!

It was great meeting you and all the guys!

pwa · 12-24-2011, 10:44 PM

Nice Looking General Tso going to be adding this to my must try !!

pwa

captndan · 12-25-2011, 05:52 AM

The best presentation I've seen in a long time.. Outstanding!

12-24-2011, 06:46 PM	#1
Gore Phizzy Join Date: 10-05-08 Location: Hiding out from blood suck ghost snake gods, Nazis and scrap iron chefs trying to harvest body parts Name/Nickname : Gore (surprise!)	General Tso's BBQ, Red Boat Fish Sauce, and San Francisco Brethren I was in San Francisco for the AGU meeting the first week of December and had the good fortune to meet a number of Brethren at Phat Matt's. It was a nice time. I took a few pictures, but I had my cheapo back-up camera that doesn't work so well in low light. As it turned out, Ron_L also was in town, so it was really special. Some of these people need no introduction, as you recognize them from their avatar, like Landarc: Martyleach and R2Egg2Q Smokejumper, and Ron_L For some reason, I took these pictures when we got our food and I waited for SirPorkaLot to get his food to take a picture, but by the time it showed up, I completely forgot . I know there were others taking pics there, so I hope someone with a decent camera can fill in the details. What happened the next day is that Bob, Rob and I went to Mission Chinese. There were a number of great dishes, but what I really enjoyed was General Tso's veal breast. For anyone who has eaten Chinese food, you know that one of the most typical dishes to be found now is General Tso's chicken, which is usually a sweet-spicy dish (although I have had it twice in which it was sweet-sour). I think it has replaced completely the sweet-and-sour pork abomination that was probably the most popular American-Chinese dish. I say abomination because in America this dish never has a sour component at all, making it very one-dimensional (although great for kids and a guilty pleasure). Surprisingly, it is quite a different dish if ordered in Europe, where it is actually sweet-and-sour (a thinner, darker, non-fluorescing sauce is used) and the pork is a roast, rather than the fried pieces of pork that you typically find in America -- at least that is my experience. I was told this was probably the most popular "Chinese" dish in Europe, but it was quite different from our version having the same name. In any case, the veal breast at Mission Chinese was a nice variation and I especially liked the crispy outer coating. My thought was that when I got home I would give it a shot with burnt ends, which is what I did last weekend. I began by seasoning up a couple of pork butts and a chuckie and doing an overnighter. I've wanted to do that for a while anyway. Next morning, I took off the chuckie (you can forget about the pork for now) and chopped it up to make some faux burnt ends. I then made a hot-sour sauce that is General-Tso-like: In short, I mixed the following: 1/4 cup water 1 T soy sauce 1 T Apple cider vinegar (this was homemade, last year's batch and really good) 1 t Hoisin sauce 1 t Sriracha 1 t sesame oil (dark, although it probably doesn't matter) 1 T brown sugar 1 t cornstarch 1 T Red Boat Fish Sauce (thank you Smokejumper) 1 T ground ginger I made a double batch, as I would need the other half later for a topping. Also, if you are making this, make sure you dissolve the cornstarch in the cold water first, before adding everything else, mix everything up and heat on the stove to thicken. There are lots of variations possible on the ingredients. What is critical is balancing the sweet and the sour. I especially want to put a plug in for the Red Boat Fish Sauce. This normally is not used in this dish, but I find it a great brightening agent. Since I was doing a bit of experimentation, I mixed one of these batches with a healthy dose of Sweet Baby Rays and doused those cubes that I cut up. I put these on at 300* and made faux burnt ends. When these were finished, I plated them with some broccoli, added some Thai peppers and sesame seeds and the other half of the sauce. I found General Tso's Burnt Ends to be much better than the chicken he's more famous for. Later, I tried something a bit different. I again made up some sauce (same recipe as before, but I added some chili paste to the mix. The sauce had a bit more body to it, but the balance was still very good (I adjust the Sriracha accordingly). I put these together with some sliced green onions, and yellow pepper to make General Tso's Pulled Pork Sammie: I must admit that the sauce did not work nearly as well on the pulled pork as it did on the beef, but it was still good. __________________ Assistant to a Mad BBQ Scientist (and a squirrel): Primo Oval XL, Small Offset, Gasser, Optigrill, UBS "I love everything about the pig, even the way she walks." -- Spanish proverb (\__/) (='.'=) This is the rabbit baby. Invests him in yours signature, (")_(") and the help rabbit baby takes over control of the world! Hmmmm, I wonder, WWGALD? Avatar courtesy of Grillman and NorthwestBBQ Promoted by Bigabyte to "Idiot #1" , and dubbed "Phizzy" by Sir Ron.

12-24-2011, 07:12 PM	#2
colonel00 Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 06-03-10 Location: Shawnee, KS	No Nachos?!?! Sammie looks good although I am not so sure how exactly you go about eating that thing. __________________ Brad [URL="https://www.instagram.com/bradsimmons00/"]Some of my photos on Instagram [/URL] [SIZE=1][I][COLOR=red]Proud owner of the PentaZero[/COLOR][/I][/SIZE] :whoo: [B][COLOR=red]WWWWFBBQADD[/COLOR][/B] [B]0 out of 1 members found this post helpful[/B] :thumb: “I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson

12-24-2011, 07:15 PM	#3
martyleach Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 12-17-10 Location: Pleasanton, Ca	Looks great! I do want to see your face right after you chew up those uncooked Thai peppers...... __________________ XL BGE, Kamado Joe Jr, Santa Maria pit, 26" Weber custom performer, MAK One Star pellet cooker, 14.5" WSM, Jumbo Joe, WGA, Arte Flame griddle insert for the 26" Weber. Custom wooden handles for BBQ's made by Marty Leach (oh, that's me) [url]http://www.amlwoodart.com[/url]

12-24-2011, 07:42 PM	#5
landarc somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 06-26-09 Location: sAn leAnDRo, CA	Very nice recap Gore and some great riffs on that great General Tso's Veal Breast dish we had at Mission Chinese. I like the sauce you worked up. I also feel horrible when I order Sweet and Sour pork, even more so when the waitress gives me a disapproving glance. __________________ [COLOR=DarkGreen][COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=1]me: I don't drink anymore Yelonutz: me either, but, then again, I don't drink any less [/SIZE][/COLOR][/COLOR][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkRed] [COLOR=Pink]SSS[/COLOR] [/COLOR][/SIZE]

12-24-2011, 07:47 PM	#6
morgaj1 is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 09-06-11 Location: Alabama	I will definitely be using this recipe soon. I guess that I will have to order some Red Boat, as it is not available locally. I like fish sauce (umami factor), but have not been pleased with what is available around here. BTW, what do you think General Tso might put on Spam? __________________ Eric Congress is like 2 drunks arguing about the bar tab on the Titanic.

12-24-2011, 08:01 PM	#7
bigabyte somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 05-10-06 Location: Overland Fark, KS	That General Tso's looks great! A whole lot better than those other guys. Have you washed all that left-coast stuff off of you yet? __________________ Asshattatron Farkanaut, CGCFO Chief Galactic Crockpot Foil Officer *Certified MOINK Baller & IMBAS Certified MOINK Ball Judge #0003 - Are you MOINK Certified?* *Sole recipient of the Silverfinger and fingerlickin Awards!* Don't forget about the Throwdown Thingies! The Secret Squirrel Society doesn't exist - Zero Club Duh.

12-24-2011, 08:02 PM	#8
hav is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 06-30-08 Location: Flushing, NY	Man that sandwhich looks fantastic! I don't see how you could get that in your mouth. __________________ Butts-N-Gutts BBQ Team ( NYC Chapter Member ) Official MOINK Ball Maker ( Certified Dec 2008 ) Not So Ugly Drum Smoker, now on wheels!; 22.5" Weber Kettle One Touch Gold (CL Rescue); 22.5" Weber [B][COLOR=blue][I]Cool-Blue[/I][/COLOR][/B] Performer; 14" Table Top Kettle Grill; Turkey Fryer; [B][I][COLOR=red]Rapid-Fire-Red[/COLOR][/I][/B] Thermapen!; [COLOR="SeaGreen"][B][I]Mini, Small, Medium & Large BGE![/I][/B][/COLOR]

12-24-2011, 08:14 PM	#9
SmokeJumper is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 04-14-10 Location: San Francisco, CA and Phu Quoc Island Vietnam	Thanks for the brilliant flashbacks to the mini-bash and Mission Chinese. I really dig your Chinese inspired cook. I'd hit a whole platter of those Tso's burnt ends any day. __________________ Rob - 26-1/2" OTG and A Clutch of BGEs

12-24-2011, 08:46 PM	#10
Moose somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 10-12-08 Location: Gallatin, TN Name/Nickname : Richard	Thanks for sharing all of this, Gore. You really went the distance on this cook! It's also nice to put a few faces to avatars, as only a few of us, like you and I actually put our real faces on them. As an aside, I always eat at least 3 or 4 of those hot peppers with my General Tso's pizzas and nachos. __________________ Moose *Showcase Your Cooking in the BBQ Brethren Throwdowns!* 2017's "Mayo Explosion" The 2022 Steak Cooking Controversy: Follow the Science! Check out my blog: www.mooseonfire.com

12-24-2011, 09:06 PM	#11
Al Czervik somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 05-17-11 Location: 17h 45m 40.036 and -29° 00` 28.17 Name/Nickname : Scott/Mongo	Great post Gore! Both your GT Burnt Ends and PP Sammie look like winners. Not sure my system could handle those Thai peppers without a snowcone for the next day , but I'd give them a nibble to find out . I also appreciate seeing the faces behind the avatars... __________________ Primo Oval XL, Weber Performer, Weber Genesis Gaser, ThermoWorks Smoke X4 w/ Billows, Gandalf Grey Thermapen ONE, Limited Edition Neutrino Fast Blue Thermapen Classic, Little Buddy ThermoPop *Zero Club Member* *qualifying in the 2011 Special Summer of Spam TD with the Coveted Double Ought...* (\__/) (='.'=) Avatar by Chalupa (")_(")

12-24-2011, 09:48 PM	#13
Ron_L Moderator Join Date: 12-09-04 Location: Wandering, but not lost Name/Nickname : Captain Ron	Wow! Nice job on the General Tso's, Gore! It was great meeting you and all the guys! __________________ "Ron Rico, Boss. You can call me Captain Ron..." Naked Fatties Rock! PKGo X 2/PK360/Weber Q1000/Blackstone Camping Griddle/Pit Boss Pro Series 850

12-24-2011, 10:44 PM	#14
pwa is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 10-11-11 Location: North Pole, Alaska	Nice Looking General Tso going to be adding this to my must try !! pwa

12-25-2011, 05:52 AM	#15
captndan Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 06-29-11 Location: Greeneville TN	The best presentation I've seen in a long time.. Outstanding!

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