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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 08-19-2019, 07:38 PM   #91
egorham
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Originally Posted by gettinbasted View Post
I honestly think divisions are the answer. The true “pro” circuit might only have a handful of high profile events and teams, while smaller profile local events can cater to teams that don’t have the time and budget to compete on a large scale. We could still come up with ways to involve the “pro” teams at these events. Maybe by implementing restrictions on numbers they can cook, proteins, or whatever.

It isn’t Rocket Surgery. Other “sports” have been here before. Find a model to emulate and get busy. I always see golf and racing as the closest structure wise to comp BBQ. For instance, in racing, the top level guys can compete at a lower level, but the equipment is limited and they don’t get points.
You have mentioned this a few times and I would be interested in hearing how you would propose it work. In your system would the American Royal invitational and The Jack no longer be considered "world championships" and would their be a path to getting there similar to how the US Open works in golf? The reason I ask about these two are that I really don't care about KCBS points but I do want to compete in The Royal and The Jack at some point. I think many others are in the same position I am in.

For me the reasons I compete are:
1) Because I enjoy it and I want to compete against the best (at least the best in California).
2) To (hopefully) be able to cook The Jack and The American Royal.
3) California BBQ Association Team of the Year. We only count the top 5 scores rather than top 10 . I always assume you have to, at a minimum, do 2.5x the number events counted to realistically have a chance at Team of the Year and 12 events is more realistic form me than 25.

And you are correct, to do anything other than #1 I need to cook a lot more but I don't think I will be able to do that until my kids go to college.


I also want to say that you may be correct, this may be the best path forward for KCBS and/or professional BBQ. I think it is tough for people like me and others on this forum because we are the ones that get downsized out of the pro ranks and nobody has ever thought it was a great idea to downsize themselves out of anything.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:45 PM   #92
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Follow me here because I'm just spit balling.

16-20 National BBQ League Events. These are high prize purse, high entry fee (for opens), high profile events around the globe with no limits. I could see a combination of invitational and open events. Everyone can cook 2 of these events in a year without giving up their "amateur" status. As soon as you take the plunge and elect to cook 3 or more, you are now a pro subject to the restrictions when competing in "local" events. This level will have it's own points chase, sponsorships that can pay entry fees, etc. All the trappings of big money BBQ.

Normal KCBS events would be considered "locals". This would be the main KCBS points chase. They could be 4 meat events, one meat events, organizer provided meat events, whatever. "Pro" teams can compete, but we can place restrictions on them of some sort. Maybe they pay a higher entry for a KCBS provided cooler of meat, maybe there is a handicap (see Pappy???), maybe you limit the number of "locals" each pro team can do, whatever. Either way, "pro" teams will not receive points for these local events. Add a big money Sam'sesque tour that caters to the lower level and we might be on to something.

Go easy on me. It's just a start.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:49 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by egorham View Post
You have mentioned this a few times and I would be interested in hearing how you would propose it work. In your system would the American Royal invitational and The Jack no longer be considered "world championships" and would their be a path to getting there similar to how the US Open works in golf? The reason I ask about these two are that I really don't care about KCBS points but I do want to compete in The Royal and The Jack at some point. I think many others are in the same position I am in.

For me the reasons I compete are:
1) Because I enjoy it and I want to compete against the best (at least the best in California).
2) To (hopefully) be able to cook The Jack and The American Royal.
3) California BBQ Association Team of the Year. We only count the top 5 scores rather than top 10 . I always assume you have to, at a minimum, do 2.5x the number events counted to realistically have a chance at Team of the Year and 12 events is more realistic form me than 25.

And you are correct, to do anything other than #1 I need to cook a lot more but I don't think I will be able to do that until my kids go to college.


I also want to say that you may be correct, this may be the best path forward for KCBS and/or professional BBQ. I think it is tough for people like me and others on this forum because we are the ones that get downsized out of the pro ranks and nobody has ever thought it was a great idea to downsize themselves out of anything.
Big invitationals and other similar events like the open can remain as is. They are outside of the points chase anyway (except for exemptions, which could go away). I'd like to see these remain World Championships and as is along with Memphis and Houston (and the most important, undisputed, World Championship of World Championships, the King of the Smoker. Bring it back Sterling).
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:36 PM   #94
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(and the most important, undisputed, World Championship of World Championships, the King of the Smoker. Bring it back Sterling).

If you can get Sterling on board with this it may be the first thing on the forum everyone agrees with.

I would be fine with the system you outlined as well. I would be worried that locals would have a tough time getting sponsors but I don't see how it would change much for the rest of us, but I am often wrong about things so there is probably something I am missing.

You will have to make sure at least one of your top events (outside of KOS) is in California, the state with the biggest population should have at least one of the majors!

Last edited by egorham; 08-19-2019 at 08:41 PM..
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:52 PM   #95
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If you can get Sterling on board with this it may be the first thing on the forum everyone agrees with.

I would be fine with the system you outlined as well. I would be worried that locals would have a tough time getting sponsors but I don't see how it would change much for the rest of us, but I am often wrong about things so there is probably something I am missing.

You will have to make sure at least one of your top events (outside of KOS) is in California, the state with the biggest population should have at least one of the majors!
You probably don’t market them as “pro” and “amateur”. Maybe it’s “unlimited series”, “Masters series” and “competitors series”. I don’t think the sponsorship prospects/marketing will change all that much. Big names will be at both types of events. If anything they will increase with increased visibility and marketing of competition bbq via the unlimited series.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:54 PM   #96
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I think you need a way to move down a division too. Make your status based on the current and prior years. Us aging veterans need a soft landing somewhere.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:30 PM   #97
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I don't think JD was suggesting that ALL contests would be meat supplied events. Just that he would like to see a few more of them. I don't think that would sink SRF or Compart Farms. And JD does cook - quite well. He took 2nd in pork last weekend, not using Compart pork, because we cannot get Compart pork in the northwest unless you have an in with a food service wholesaler or are willing to pay about $100 per butt to have it shipped here.
When you say "You people act like it's all the meat and not any of the skill of the cook," that is precisely what JD was suggesting, let the skill of the cook be shown by everyone cooking the same quality of meat.
More of them??? Teams didn’t support the ones that attempted it.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:44 PM   #98
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Thanks....I just about opened my mouth and suggested that JD has more GC's then Travis has pork wins....
So?
I guess with my less wins than him I can still realize that This whole concept of having teams draw for coolers of provided meat does not make it fair or level the playing field. Just because it’s the same brand doesn’t mean it will all be the same quality.

Last edited by tduffy; 08-20-2019 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:24 AM   #99
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My only thing is entrance fees are too high at alot of comps. In hindsight I probably jumped into the pro side to early. I feel funny to compete in backyard events so I don't.
I wish I had more oppurtunity to cook but entrance fees limit that because of my financial situation. I really have zero problem with any big team buying any meat they want or as much meat as they want.
Really divisions might not be bad if it allowed for an in between amateur and true professionals. Something with lower entrance fees and a smaller prize pool. To allow cooks like myself to develop.
Lately, I have been thinking about if I should continue to pursue bbq competition. I go back and forth. I have 2 kids one of which is likely disabled. I have work obligations and limited time off.
I took this year off from comp bbq for family health problems with my dad and my daughter.
I may be back next year or I may just hang it up.

A semi pro division with lower fees and maybe having saturday sunday comps would allow me the time and money to compete and develop. Honestly, I don't see it happening.

I have considered trying to start a new team to help reduce costs and maybe not be in the head cook role. That way I can show up later and not miss work. I have tried to find team mates in the past but it hasn't happened.

I suppose it would help if kcbs was actively setting up social events to help smaller teams maybe combine into larger more competitive teams. That would reduce costs for smaller teams and allow them to be more competitive. Without negatively impacting better or larger teams.
Just some thoughts.

To be clear I haven't decided yet if I am done but lately as much as I love competition bbq with everything going on and the high cost and high level of commitment required the possibility of being done is on the table.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:06 AM   #100
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:43 AM   #101
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If you siphon off the elite teams and the sponsorship money into separate events what does that leave for everyone else? Are a lot of events not already struggling to get the team registration up and to find sponsors to make the event viable? It might be fine for the elite team's but I think you will leave everyone else to suffer and as a result there will be minimal new team development to feed the events. Keep in mind that bbq is not a spectator sport and offers organizers very little in return for their investment of time and money. Putting more sponsorship money into prize monies might be good for the team's competing but doesn't help the organizers putting on an event as a fundraiser for their cause.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:10 AM   #102
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Probably the only way to stop the bitching.

It all boils down to the fact that people want to compete against and beat the best, but instead of putting in the time, effort and, yes, money to raise their game up to the level necessary, they want to complain and impose restrictions to bring the competition down to their level.

I honestly think divisions are the answer. The true “pro” circuit might only have a handful of high profile events and teams, while smaller profile local events can cater to teams that don’t have the time and budget to compete on a large scale. We could still come up with ways to involve the “pro” teams at these events. Maybe by implementing restrictions on numbers they can cook, proteins, or whatever.

It isn’t Rocket Surgery. Other “sports” have been here before. Find a model to emulate and get busy. I always see golf and racing as the closest structure wise to comp BBQ. For instance, in racing, the top level guys can compete at a lower level, but the equipment is limited and they don’t get points.
Brad I couldn't agree more with your idea about different divisions. While Barbecue has a national presence the majority of businesses are really locally driven to the area where they are located. If you setup regions across the country you could have a Pro Circuit that you market to sponsors in that respective region. Along with that maybe you find a partner who has a interest in having a national presence as title sponsor. If you had 5 regions (west coast north south central east coast) you could setup a format where you as a team who was interested in competing for the National Team of the Year could do so. You could have 4 contests in each region 20 total. You can cook all if you want but you would only be required to compete in 4 of the regions (west coast teams wouldn't have to travel to the east coast). How you would crown a champion of course would involve people smarter than me. It seems to me that this could work in some form of concept.
Along with a National Team of the year. By having different regions you could also crown a regional champion for each respective region.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:14 AM   #103
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If you siphon off the elite teams and the sponsorship money into separate events what does that leave for everyone else? Are a lot of events not already struggling to get the team registration up and to find sponsors to make the event viable? It might be fine for the elite team's but I think you will leave everyone else to suffer and as a result there will be minimal new team development to feed the events. Keep in mind that bbq is not a spectator sport and offers organizers very little in return for their investment of time and money. Putting more sponsorship money into prize monies might be good for the team's competing but doesn't help the organizers putting on an event as a fundraiser for their cause.
Most of the sponsors at local events now are local companies. Sure, the big comps have big, corporate sponsors, but the ones in small towns that are raising money for the Rotary Club or whatever are sponsored by the local insurance guy, etc. I don't see why they wouldn't still continue to support their community.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:33 AM   #104
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If you siphon off the elite teams and the sponsorship money into separate events what does that leave for everyone else? Are a lot of events not already struggling to get the team registration up and to find sponsors to make the event viable? It might be fine for the elite team's but I think you will leave everyone else to suffer and as a result there will be minimal new team development to feed the events. Keep in mind that bbq is not a spectator sport and offers organizers very little in return for their investment of time and money. Putting more sponsorship money into prize monies might be good for the team's competing but doesn't help the organizers putting on an event as a fundraiser for their cause.
So we want to use the elite teams and the sponsorship money they bring to prop up events, but we also want to slap on cost control measures, take away the ability for those sponsored teams to use their sponsors products and complain about these teams “unfairly” winning the events?

I think divisions would have the opposite effect. It would foster new team development by lowering the cost to play and making it easier to have success early. What an organizer wants to put towards the prize purse is up to them, just like it currently stands. The vast majority of sponsorship dollars at these events are local. Big name teams will still cook the local events. National sponsor programs such as the Smithfield grant will still put money into local events because that’s where the large majority of cooks will be cooking.

The way to increase the ROI for events coast to coast is to increase the popularity and visibility of competition BBQ. Why can’t it be a spectator sport? Fishing is. Under the current structure it’s not much to watch, but if you have a national tour driving the marketing, social media and fan interaction side of things, this will bleed down to all events everywhere. More sponsors, more attendance, more participation at local events. Most events under the current system lose money and are gone within a couple of years. The ones that are profitable don’t really need a KCBS portion to thrive (and some are figuring that out).

I think bbq can exist in the state that it is. It will continue to contract a bit until it finds its post Pitmasters equilibrium. We can all continue to show up on Friday, sit in our air conditioned trailers, drink beer in an empty parking lot with a handful of fellow competitors after the sun goes down, spend $1500 to win $250, grab our ribbons and head home to do it all over again. Or we can get creative, adapt, market, give to the public, and grow this thing to the benefit of all. We just got a crack marketer as CEO. It's time to blow this baby up!
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:34 AM   #105
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Thanks....I just about opened my mouth and suggested that JD has more GC's then Travis has pork wins....
Is that KCBS GC's or PNWBA or whatever it's called? Because this topic is on KCBS.
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