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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 08-16-2019, 04:40 PM   #61
midwest_kc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnt at Both Endz View Post
I call Bullchit….I will use this contest 2 weeks ago as a sample.

https://mms.kcbs.us/members/evr/view...&evid=41112647
There was some questionable judging for sure. I just keep reminding myself our 2 worst cooks this year, Brad didn't do fantastic and this one neither did Joe. Lets me at least believe we're on the right path, lol.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:40 PM   #62
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That said, the cream does tend to rise to the top. Everyone has off days, even judges.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:44 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ffemtreed View Post
As a newish team with 13 comps under our belts over the past 4 years I would say our biggest frustration is the lack of feed back from the judging process. We almost completely quit after about 4 or 6 comps because we couldn't figure out what the judges wanted and the very little amount of comment cards we got were mostly useless and in a lot of cases contradicting themselves.



I have talked to a couple of teams who no longer compete just for this reason. They do a few comps and work hard at improving, but still never see the scores improve and they just give-up. They just don't know how to improve and unless you are cooking a lot contests you can't really experiment to find that winning combo of flavors that consistently score well.


The reason why my team still competes is we are strong A type personalities and don't quit just because we lose. We have said multiple times on the long rides home that once we do well at one of these comps we will quit. I hoping when that time comes it will fuel our fire to do even better.



Again this goes back to our strong type A, I want to compete against the best, I don't want to win some in some lower division just to get a pat on the back.
Lack of feedback I think gets everyone at some point. We were there too. We ended up taking a couple classes, and have improved with each one we took. It definitely allowed us to see what the target was for tenderness, flavors, etc.

I would recommend a class on the type of cooker you use for a first one. While we learn a lot from all of them, and take things from everyone, our 2nd class was Brad and Tim's. Cooking on Gateways, it gave us some insight in how to use our drums better, and how to turn out the food we wanted. Trimming, flavors, presentation, etc have been influenced by all of the ones we've taken, though.
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:12 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ffemtreed View Post
As a newish team with 13 comps under our belts over the past 4 years I would say our biggest frustration is the lack of feed back from the judging process. We almost completely quit after about 4 or 6 comps because we couldn't figure out what the judges wanted and the very little amount of comment cards we got were mostly useless and in a lot of cases contradicting themselves.



I have talked to a couple of teams who no longer compete just for this reason. They do a few comps and work hard at improving, but still never see the scores improve and they just give-up. They just don't know how to improve and unless you are cooking a lot contests you can't really experiment to find that winning combo of flavors that consistently score well.


The reason why my team still competes is we are strong A type personalities and don't quit just because we lose. We have said multiple times on the long rides home that once we do well at one of these comps we will quit. I hoping when that time comes it will fuel our fire to do even better.



Again this goes back to our strong type A, I want to compete against the best, I don't want to win some in some lower division just to get a pat on the back.
Great point about the feedback. The most frustrating part about this is it could be fixed overnight with a tweak to the scoring system that made your scores diagnostic in nature while having no impact on overall scores, averages, or anything else.

Good luck keeping after it!
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Old 08-16-2019, 06:34 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Burnt at Both Endz View Post
I call Bullchit….I will use this contest 2 weeks ago as a sample.

https://mms.kcbs.us/members/evr/view...&evid=41112647

I mean I guess personally I would look at that as an outlier since it is blanketed by regional comps in the weeks prior and the week after where the top 5s were made up of 2 or 3 of the top 10 TOY teams.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:51 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Burnt at Both Endz View Post
I call Bullchit….I will use this contest 2 weeks ago as a sample.

https://mms.kcbs.us/members/evr/view...&evid=41112647
I’m so glad I decided to stay home that weekend.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:51 PM   #67
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I can tell you from a wannabe competitor's point of view exactly what is discouraging new team formation. These things greatly discourage me:



1. The un-level playing field when it comes to meat. Hell, I can't afford Wagyu briskets or Snake River Farms pork butts/ribs. The "Guinea Pig" contests seemed like a great idea, where all teams were on the same level playing field in terms of meat quality. But those contests seem to have gone by the way side, probably because top teams cried about not being able to use higher quality meat than most other teams could afford.



2. Stupid garnish. KCBS says it's "all about the meat", but it's really not. It's a lot about the garnish. Allowing people to pretty-up their boxes with garnish adds an unnecessary burden on cooks.




3. The way KCBS contests have gravitated toward producing BBQ that almost no one would want to cook/eat at home. I'm a (former) KCBS judge who simply got tired of eating over-salted, over-spiced, overly sweet, MSG-filled meat that would overpower most people's palate before they got done eating a meal. The "get the judges' attention with one bite" philosophy is a canker sore on the face of KCBS.


I'd really love to compete, but the above three things give me great hesitation.


1. Our team cooks with the South Carolina Barbecue Assoc. (SCBA) which uses the "guinea pig" method. I have to agree with Brad and Jorge, 9 comps. out of 10 its one of the dozen or so "regulars" that hear their names called at awards time. Further, I'll say 6 of 10 comps. its one of 6-8 of those dozen.



2. SCBA also doesn't allow garnish but don't think we just put our turn in cuts in the bottom of a bare white 9" box. We "garnish" our boxes and it's edible just not green.



3.Sorry, this is the nature of competition anything whether its food, show cars, or whatever. It's generally the folks who are willing to go a little further and push the limits that succeed. I know I'm constantly working to figure out anything that I feel may give me an edge. Although I know as new as I am to comp BBQ most have figured out, forgotten, and remembered waaay more than I can hope to know.
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Old 08-17-2019, 01:48 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by gettinbasted View Post
It makes perfect sense if the bunch of whiners you’re talking about are better cooks than you are. (I don’t want to ruin the ending, but they’re much better cooks than you are)
In adding absurd amounts of rub, salt, and MSG - yes, you're right. They (you) are much better cooks than I am. Hands down. You've perfected the "art" of creating one-bite impressions that in totality make a sickening meal. Congratulations.

In terms of juciness and tenderness, and something everyday people would want to eat and keep eating, you've probably become too indoctrinated to "one-bite impressions" to even be in the same ball park as the average backyard cook.

Again, congratulations.
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Old 08-17-2019, 02:54 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by TBoneMac View Post
In adding absurd amounts of rub, salt, and MSG - yes, you're right. They (you) are much better cooks than I am. Hands down. You've perfected the "art" of creating one-bite impressions that in totality make a sickening meal. Congratulations.

In terms of juciness and tenderness, and something everyday people would want to eat and keep eating, you've probably become too indoctrinated to "one-bite impressions" to even be in the same ball park as the average backyard cook.

Again, congratulations.
There is a competition for juiciness, tenderness and something everyday people want to eat and keep eating and it is called the restaurant business....and guess what, Brad does well at that too.

Your post makes it sound like the food that gets served at a competition is inedible, it is not. I feed it to friends and family that come to events all the time and they love it. I have had the opportunity to sample a lot of the food that top teams have made and it is good too. Could it be seasoned less and still be good yes, but it is still enjoyable to eat.

In your original post you said that the meat was too expensive, this is really just the brisket because many (most?) of the top teams use pork and chicken from Walmart. A SRF brisket is going to cost an extra $100 for a contest that costs between $600-$800 depending on the location (gas + hotel if I need to stay overnight). Is that a real money, yes, but is it the difference between competing and not competing?

In the same post you said you don't like garnish. I can't imagine KCBS would get rid of garnish then put a limit on the amount of meat you can put in the box. That will cause teams to use meat as a garnish just like FBA events. That extra meat (and smoker space) is going to increase costs way more than the extra $100 for a Wagyu brisket.

Last edited by egorham; 08-17-2019 at 03:32 PM..
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Old 08-17-2019, 03:45 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by egorham View Post
There is a competition for juiciness, tenderness and something everyday people want to eat and keep eating and it is called the restaurant business....and guess what, Brad does well at that too.

Your post makes it sound like the food that gets served at a competition is inedible, it is not. I feed it to friends and family that come to events all the time and they love it. I have had the opportunity to sample a lot of the food that top teams have made and it is good too. Could it be seasoned less and still be good yes, but it is still enjoyable to eat.

In your original post you said that the meat was too expensive, this is really just the brisket because many (most?) of the top teams use pork and chicken from Walmart. A SRF brisket is going to cost an extra $100 for a contest that costs between $600-$800 depending on the location (gas + hotel if I need to stay overnight). Is that a real money, yes, but is it the difference between competing and not competing?

In the same post you said you don't like garnish. I can't imagine KCBS would get rid of garnish then put a limit on the amount of meat can be in the box. That will cause teams to use meat as a garnish just like FBA events. That extra meat (and smoker space) is going to increase costs way more than the extra $100 for a Wagyu brisket.

Just further proof that KCBS is a broken model. There's no defending that.

Look, I mean no disrespect to you or any competition cook here. Hell, I'd LOVE to be a good competition cook. Yall are good at competition, and I'm not. Enough said. Yall are better than me. I can admit that and be OK with it. Satisfied?

I've wanted to get into competition BBQ for a long time. I became a KCBS Certified BBQ Judge, excited to learn the ropes in anticipation of becoming a competition cook. Just for fun, with winning as an "icing on the cake" proposition.

Then I learned that the objective of the majority of KCBS cooks was to create a "one bite" explosion of flavor that overwhelmed the judges' taste buds to the point of making a big impression, yet unwelcome by most "dinner eaters" standards for a full meal. And I experienced it myself, as a KCBS BBQ judge.

I got so sick of over-salted, over-spiced, MSG-filled meat that I quit judging altogether. I much preferred my backyard BBQ to the "professional quality" meat I had been eating at KCBS competitions.

I'm sorry if I'm offending any of the "professionals" here. The term "professional" tends to be as over-used as the term "engineer" these days. And everyone wants to be called an "engineer".
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Old 08-17-2019, 04:19 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by TBoneMac View Post
I got so sick of over-salted, over-spiced, MSG-filled meat that I quit judging altogether. I much preferred my backyard BBQ to the "professional quality" meat I had been eating at KCBS competitions.

Were the winning teams doing this? I find it hard to believe that the winning teams were turning in over-salted, over-spice MSG filled meat. Whenever I have done well it has been more balanced than over-powering like you describe.


The phrases "one bite BBQ" and "KCBS is all about garnish" came from a TV show. It makes for good TV but it is not really how things work when you get to a contest. Do we use garnish, yes, is that the most important part of an entry, no...tenderness is. Good balanced flavor with perfect tenderness in a simple, neat garnished box will beat over-salted, over-spiced meat at most contests.
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Old 08-17-2019, 06:45 PM   #72
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extra meat (and smoker space) is going to increase costs way more than the extra $100 for a Wagyu brisket.
I was gonna type the exact same thing. People would start cooking an extra SRF Gold just to chop for the box!
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:06 PM   #73
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Just further proof that KCBS is a broken model. There's no defending that.

Look, I mean no disrespect to you or any competition cook here. Hell, I'd LOVE to be a good competition cook. Yall are good at competition, and I'm not. Enough said. Yall are better than me. I can admit that and be OK with it. Satisfied?

I've wanted to get into competition BBQ for a long time. I became a KCBS Certified BBQ Judge, excited to learn the ropes in anticipation of becoming a competition cook. Just for fun, with winning as an "icing on the cake" proposition.

Then I learned that the objective of the majority of KCBS cooks was to create a "one bite" explosion of flavor that overwhelmed the judges' taste buds to the point of making a big impression, yet unwelcome by most "dinner eaters" standards for a full meal. And I experienced it myself, as a KCBS BBQ judge.

I got so sick of over-salted, over-spiced, MSG-filled meat that I quit judging altogether. I much preferred my backyard BBQ to the "professional quality" meat I had been eating at KCBS competitions.

I'm sorry if I'm offending any of the "professionals" here. The term "professional" tends to be as over-used as the term "engineer" these days. And everyone wants to be called an "engineer".
So you became a CBJ to be “dinner eater”? Then you want to demean everything about Comp BBQ. Thank for not judging anymore nor becoming a “professional” to show us how it should be done.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:08 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by TBoneMac View Post
Then I learned that the objective of the majority of KCBS cooks was to create a "one bite" explosion of flavor that overwhelmed the judges' taste buds to the point of making a big impression, yet unwelcome by most "dinner eaters" standards for a full meal. And I experienced it myself, as a KCBS BBQ judge.

I'm sorry if I'm offending any of the "professionals" here. The term "professional" tends to be as over-used as the term "engineer" these days. And everyone wants to be called an "engineer".
The objective of every KCBS cook is winning a bbq contest. Cooks gravitate to what scores. If a completely unseasoned, unsauced, over smoked piece of meat like you make at home was judged the best by a group of 50 strangers, that is what would win so that is what would go in the box. Your supposition that the KCBS system is broken because you don’t like the food that most humans judging bbq contests deem the best is a little ridiculous. Stop judging and go on about your life.

Or maybe you’re a “professional” troll? If so I give you all 9s!
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #75
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In adding absurd amounts of rub, salt, and MSG - yes, you're right. They (you) are much better cooks than I am. Hands down. You've perfected the "art" of creating one-bite impressions that in totality make a sickening meal. Congratulations.

In terms of juciness and tenderness, and something everyday people would want to eat and keep eating, you've probably become too indoctrinated to "one-bite impressions" to even be in the same ball park as the average backyard cook.

Again, congratulations.
Thanks buddy!

I hope to continue to use my imaginary cooking prowess to turn real world profits. Maybe one day I’ll be a “professional”!
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