MMMM.. BRISKET..
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.  



Our Homepage Donation to Forum Overhead Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Amazon Affiliate
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Q-talk

Notices

Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-22-2014, 11:35 PM   #1
thunter
is One Chatty Farker

 
thunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-06
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default WSM Minimal Smoke Ring Theory

So I know it's a dangerous prospect, but I was thinking today!

I have been irked to no end with the inconsistent, minimal, and in many cases, no smoke ring on the meats that come off the WSM. When ever I smoke indirect on my Aussie cheapo grill, I always get a very nice and pronouned smoke ring 100% of the time. When I cooked on my offset (Chargriller Smokin' Pro) I always got a very pronounced smoke ring 100% of the time. Heck, when I cook brats on my super-cheap, table-top, generic smokey-joe clone, I get a smoke ring on them 100% of the time. But on my WSMs, I can almost empty a bag of wood chunks into them and still get no, or a very slight smoke ring. What's up with that?

Well, I think it's as simple as what I call Perimeter Smoke Flow. What this means is, in the WSM, if the top vent is wide open, as it usually is, smoke does saturate the meat by hovering around in the cooking chamber, at least not long enough to have a deep penetrating effect. Instead, the smoke that comes up from the bottom, is quickly drafted upward, and mostly around the perimeter of the cooking chamber, and then quickly out of the top vent where all of the smoke accumulates in the lid, until it is forced out of the smoker by the draft. This means that very little smoke meanders around inside the cooking chamber at the cooking grate levels, penetrating the meat, and creating that hovering smoke effect that helps create a pronounced smoke ring.

In kettles and grills doing an indirect cook, this is not a problem because the smoke comes up from the beneath the cooking grate, surrounding the meat, and filling the cooking chamber before exiting the top vent which is likely not wide open. This environment baths the meat in smoke, and this is why we always get a nice smoke ring when cooking on them.

The solution to the WSMs' minimal smoke ring problem should be resolved by:

1.) Ensuring a very tight seal of the cooking sections.
2.) Ensuring that the charcoal door has a very tight seal.
3.) Closing the top vent during to cook to 50-75 percent.

This should create an environment inside the cooker, where smoke is literally rolling around trying to find an exit. Because the top vent is not wide open, the smoke will hover in the cooking chamber at the cooking grate levels, until it is inevitably pushed out by the draft.

I am going to be putting this theory to the test this weekend, and I am very excited about my expected results. We'll see!
__________________
Tony Hunter

Pit Happens!

Smokefleet Command
Lang 48 Patio - "Enterprise"
Weber 22.5 Premium Kettle - "Galileo"
thunter is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->


Old 05-22-2014, 11:36 PM   #2
Boshizzle
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Join Date: 01-26-10
Location: Virginia
Default

Good luck and let us know how it goes!
__________________
Operation BBQ Relief Founding Member - I am Obsessive Compulsive about BBQ. Google it.
Boshizzle is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-22-2014, 11:54 PM   #3
Fwismoker
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
Join Date: 08-22-13
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Default

JMO but i'd worry less about smoke ring and just keep things simple. I will tell you that you don't want to trap the smoke around the meat.

The biggest suggestion i can give you is stop over thinking this. The lid can be completely off the smoker and it'll get a smoke ring. I cook even cook on my UDS rotisserie topless and get smoke rings on my birds.


Now i don't have a WSM but all the smokers in my avatar are similar and all have the vent wide open plus a UDS rotisserie topless and never do i have a problem with smoke ring.
__________________
Change the way you rotisserie for the BETTER![COLOR="Red"][B]Cajun Bandit Kits for your WSM or Weber Kettle Now Available![/B][/COLOR]



Visit [COLOR="Red"]OctoForks[/COLOR] in Sales & Ventures

Website & Blog: [url]www.octoforks.com[/url]
Fwismoker is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Old 05-23-2014, 12:12 AM   #4
thunter
is One Chatty Farker

 
thunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-06
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fwismoker View Post
JMO but i'd worry less about smoke ring and just keep things simple. I will tell you that you don't want to trap the smoke around the meat.

The biggest suggestion i can give you is stop over thinking this. The lid can be completely off the smoker and it'll get a smoke ring. I cook even cook on my UDS rotisserie topless and get smoke rings on my birds.


Now i don't have a WSM but all the smokers in my avatar are similar and all have the vent wide open plus a UDS rotisserie topless and never do i have a problem with smoke ring.
Fwismoker, thanks for that. I can't help myself from overthinking this because it bugs me to no end. I too get beautiful smoke rings on my other cookers, but alas, the WSM dares to challenge me!

So, as a big BBQ Sport fan, it behooves me to figure this out. I see picture after picture of meats cooked on the WSM and I am not the only one with this problem. This could be a slight design issue with the cooker, and if so, I'd like to find it so Weber can correct it.

Some people play down the glory of the smoke ring, but not me... I want it! I said this on another forum about the smoke ring regarding competitions...

"As far as the smoke ring not being judged, that is totally not true. One of the categories of judging is "Appearance". I know what the rules say, and I also know how subjective judging is. A beautiful smoke ring enhances the appearance, and makes the judges freakin' hawngry! Yes, you get points for that!"

So, it may not be important for some, but for me, it's huge. And when it comes to the WSM, it's my nemesis!
__________________
Tony Hunter

Pit Happens!

Smokefleet Command
Lang 48 Patio - "Enterprise"
Weber 22.5 Premium Kettle - "Galileo"
thunter is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 12:16 AM   #5
grantw
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 09-13-12
Location: canada
Default

I find if i add wood as i go whether its my wsm or backwoods it get better smoke rings, if you pre build the fire with wood chunks it dont seem to work as good, that way you can put a hunk of wood in the hot spot of the fire
__________________
Backwoods party,22.5 wsm,18.5 wsm,14.5 wsm, smokey joe, performer,22.5 kettle.
grantw is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 12:25 AM   #6
thunter
is One Chatty Farker

 
thunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-06
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantw View Post
I find if i add wood as i go whether its my wsm or backwoods it get better smoke rings, if you pre build the fire with wood chunks it dont seem to work as good, that way you can put a hunk of wood in the hot spot of the fire
Yeah, I have tried all kinds of ways, including burying wood chunks within the charcoal to get even more smoke rolling. My problem is that all the smoke accumulates in the dome, which has a fairly large volume, and exits the smoker, versus having that smoke spend more time rolling around at the grate levels before exiting.
__________________
Tony Hunter

Pit Happens!

Smokefleet Command
Lang 48 Patio - "Enterprise"
Weber 22.5 Premium Kettle - "Galileo"
thunter is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 12:47 AM   #7
pbe gummi bear
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Join Date: 05-20-11
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default

Interesting thread. Do you diffuse your wsm with the water pan? What if you built some foil diffusers to route the smoke towards the meat? I'm really looking forward to your findings.
pbe gummi bear is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:03 AM   #8
thunter
is One Chatty Farker

 
thunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-06
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbe gummi bear View Post
Interesting thread. Do you diffuse your wsm with the water pan? What if you built some foil diffusers to route the smoke towards the meat? I'm really looking forward to your findings.
I do use my water pan, but I foil it instead of filling with water. I have used water before, but the results are the same.

You make an interesting point, and I agree. If I can somehow redirect the smoke, like a reverse-flow smoker, then the meat would get major exposure and that problem would be solved.

There is still the issue of the dome lid. That dome is a smoke eater! This is not a problem with the UDS or BDS either, because while they are upright cylindrical units like the WSM, they don't have a smoke-eating dome lid keeping the smoke away from the meat. Their lids are flat, and the smoke hovers at the cooking grate levels before exiting the smoker.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the dome lid is the issue.
__________________
Tony Hunter

Pit Happens!

Smokefleet Command
Lang 48 Patio - "Enterprise"
Weber 22.5 Premium Kettle - "Galileo"
thunter is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:20 AM   #9
1buckie
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 06-21-12
Location: Sacramento CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbe gummi bear View Post
Interesting thread. Do you diffuse your wsm with the water pan? What if you built some foil diffusers to route the smoke towards the meat? I'm really looking forward to your findings.

That seems like a better plan......I may be just a daffy beatnik from California, but stalling smoke in the chamber of any cooker seems like it may lead to bitter taste as a possibility........maybe not, you may very well figure it out & be OK, just, on paper, seems a bit dicey.........


"In kettles and grills doing an indirect cook, this is not a problem because the smoke comes up from the beneath the cooking grate, surrounding the meat, and filling the cooking chamber before exiting the top vent which is likely not wide open."


Kettle, top always wide open....never any other way..............


Another thought: What wood?

Hard, very hard oak, starting with colder meat & & running at a bit higher heat than usual would seem to me to have a more likely chance for producing a good ring..............
1buckie is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:22 AM   #10
pbe gummi bear
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Join Date: 05-20-11
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunter View Post
I do use my water pan, but I foil it instead of filling with water. I have used water before, but the results are the same.

You make an interesting point, and I agree. If I can somehow redirect the smoke, like a reverse-flow smoker, then the meat would get major exposure and that problem would be solved.

There is still the issue of the dome lid. That dome is a smoke eater! This is not a problem with the UDS or BDS either, because while they are upright cylindrical units like the WSM, they don't have a smoke-eating dome lid keeping the smoke away from the meat. Their lids are flat, and the smoke hovers at the cooking grate levels before exiting the smoker.

I am becoming more and more convinced that the dome lid is the issue.
I see you have two wsm's. Maybe you can use the bowl of one as a lid and use the three vents to experiment. The vents are much closer and lower to the edge so you'll be able to simulate rf flow.
pbe gummi bear is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:22 AM   #11
Jason TQ
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
Jason TQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-10-11
Location: Lawrenceville, GA
Default

I never had trouble getting a smoke ring on my WSM using briquettes and chunks of wood. Not sure what is going on in yours, but lots of threads on here with pics of deep smoke rings coming from WSMs. So not sure it is a design flaw that you need to let weber know about.

What wood are you using. You said you use bags of wood. The bagged wood stuff from the store is normally over dried garbage from my experience. Have you tried lump? I get a deeper smoke ring on my backwoods when I also use lump with the wood.
__________________
-Jason
I didn't choose D-Canoe life..........
SF 30x70
3 Hunsaker Drums
Big Green Egg XL
Pitboss Copperhead 5
2 Pitboss Whiskey Stills,
Pitboss Tailgater, Oklahoma Joe Bronco
Jason TQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:35 AM   #12
thunter
is One Chatty Farker

 
thunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-06
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1buckie View Post
Kettle, top always wide open....never any other way..............
Yes, but even so, there is no diffuser, forcing the smoke to travel the perimeter of the cooker. It envelopes the meat before exiting the cooker.

Another thing I investigated was the smoke ring on meats cooked in kettles that use the smokenator, or other methods that force the coals and wood to stack up against one side of the cooker. While there is still a smoke ring, it is diminished versus those who just spread/pile the coals and wood on one side. I think this is because the vents immediately pulls most of the smoke up and out along the perimeter of the grill because the coal and wood are packed so closely to the side. When the coal and wood is simply piled on one side, it is not restricted, and the smoke is allowed to permeate the cooker more fully.
__________________
Tony Hunter

Pit Happens!

Smokefleet Command
Lang 48 Patio - "Enterprise"
Weber 22.5 Premium Kettle - "Galileo"
thunter is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:38 AM   #13
thunter
is One Chatty Farker

 
thunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-06
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbe gummi bear View Post
I see you have two wsm's. Maybe you can use the bowl of one as a lid and use the three vents to experiment. The vents are much closer and lower to the edge so you'll be able to simulate rf flow.
That is an interesting thought! It's worth a try sometime.
__________________
Tony Hunter

Pit Happens!

Smokefleet Command
Lang 48 Patio - "Enterprise"
Weber 22.5 Premium Kettle - "Galileo"
thunter is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:41 AM   #14
1buckie
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 06-21-12
Location: Sacramento CA
Default

Kettlehead only & yeah, I do move the vent across from wherever the burn is, so smoke travels across the food...........interesting experiment.......
1buckie is offline   Reply With Quote


Old 05-23-2014, 01:42 AM   #15
thunter
is One Chatty Farker

 
thunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-06
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnbish View Post
I never had trouble getting a smoke ring on my WSM using briquettes and chunks of wood. Not sure what is going on in yours, but lots of threads on here with pics of deep smoke rings coming from WSMs. So not sure it is a design flaw that you need to let weber know about.

What wood are you using. You said you use bags of wood. The bagged wood stuff from the store is normally over dried garbage from my experience. Have you tried lump? I get a deeper smoke ring on my backwoods when I also use lump with the wood.
Yes, I have used lump too. Royal Oak, Humphrys, etc. I do use bagged wood in my WSMs, but I use the same stuff in my other cookers and have no problem at all. Also, I have a free, ongoing supply of seasoned oak splits from a fried too! Even using that in the WSM is problematic.
__________________
Tony Hunter

Pit Happens!

Smokefleet Command
Lang 48 Patio - "Enterprise"
Weber 22.5 Premium Kettle - "Galileo"
thunter is offline   Reply With Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Forum Custom Search: Enter your Search text below. GOOGLE will search ONLY the BBQ Brethren Forum.
Custom search MAY not work(no display box) in some configurations of Internet Explorer. Please use compliant version of Firefox or Chrome.







All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts