Competition Classes-Expectations versus Reality

I would say no. The instructor continuing to improve his recipes and techniques is how they will stay ahead of their students. You paid to be taught contest winning techniques/recipes and thats exactly what you got.

I agree with Ronelle.

In addition, I do not think students have any right to go around and say "Look what I learned from So and So".
Of course teammates will share and the info will eventually leak out peice by piece anyway.
I have just had a couple of guys take someone's class and then talk about the details for some "unknown" reason.

Unseemly, at best.

TIM

Nope. I took a great class, use a few techniques and ideas, but paid for the ability to see what TYPE of cooking wins, not to copy what they do. BTW - our stuff is pretty strong this year (knock on wood) and its because we came away with confidence that we just needed a little guidance.

The_Kapn said:

I agree with Ronelle.

In addition, I do not think students have any right to go around and say "Look what I learned from So and So".
Of course teammates will share and the info will eventually leak out peice by piece anyway.
I have just had a couple of guys take someone's class and then talk about the details for some "unknown" reason.

Unseemly, at best.

TIM

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I've had a few people ask me what I learned in xxxxx's class. My response was to pay $750 for the weekend and find out.

But along those lines, I don't think you should sell anything to the public that you don't do. I bought a book sold by a competition team a few years back, and they had an interesting sauce that they said they used. Since they say in the book "This is how we cook, step by step", I contacted them and asked how much success they've had with the sauce and was told that they don't use it. :shock:

I have taken a couple of classes and felt very good about the info I received. Both classes were conducted by reknowned award winning teams who have differing techniques, processes and recipes than each other. I gained a lot of info on short cuts, organization skills, philosophy of cooking, recipes and an appreciation for their achievements.

Most important is that there is no one secret formula. I'm still tweaking my process using info from these classes as a base. I've had some succeses and more to come (hopefully).

Can I call them? Yes, but I don't expect either to fill me in on any changes they made since the class. The classes were advertised to teach what they do as of the class not what they will do in the future.

Winning flavor profiles change over time and we all strive to keep up, stay ahead or even be the one to start the trend. No class is responsible for providing "updates" on what new thing they are doing (unless they advertise they will).

Maybe one day there will be some type of continuing education series at a nominal fee offered.

bdodd444 said:

Anyway, back to the original question posted on the other thread: once you fork out $500 plus for a class, is there any obligation by the instructors to provide students any updates on their tweaks? How about those of you teaching these classes? Thanks.

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I took a class from Scottie. He has always been willing to communicate with me on Facebook or by PM here when I have a question. I suppose it is up to the person taking the class to take the initiative to contact instructors to ask questions.

I have never taken any classes and don't plan on it. I think the best way of learning is going out and doing it in competitions. I have met some great people at competitions and you trade back and forth knowlege. Just because you take a class and you don't practice what you learned doesn't automatically make you as good of a cook as the instructor.

I think if you do pay to take classes and they give you the information they are winning with at that time, you should not expect updates from then on. The reason you took their class is because they are sombody in BBQ.

monty3777 said:

I took a class from Scottie. He has always been willing to communicate with me on Facebook or by PM here when I have a question. I suppose it is up to the person taking the class to take the initiative to contact instructors to ask questions.

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This, I took Chris Hart's class and have had informative communications with him when I had questions regarding the class or comp Q in general. On the other hand, I'd never email or call him and ask "so, what recipes have you changed since the class and how have you changed them?" Studends need to know their limitations.

a class, any class, is meant to teach a technique, a thought process, a philosophy, and induce the students to THINK about those foundations.

i'm pretty sure all the comp classes do this. it is then up to the student to absorb, process, and then execute his or her own results from said teachings.

in cooking, the foundations haven't changed in a long, long time. the interpretations however, do.

i think comp classes teach ALOT of the foundations and ALL of the facts on the logistics of what it takes to compete. what the teachers do on their own is their own. seems fair to me.

If some one got upset because a team won with a different technique, I'd say they need to re-evaluate their perception of entitelment. They got what they paid for, competition level techniques and information provided by the instructors. The people giving the class have worked bery hard and spent a lot of their own money developing their flavor profiles and methods they have used to win. To think that they will always use the same technique and method is an unreasonable expectation. I don't expect those giving the class to divulge their secret to success by any means other than maybe certain methods. It would seem counter productive if they were still on the circuit to teach all of their secrets to their success.

In regards to the OP, maybe the team in question was in a transition point to a new recipe or technique at the time of the class and finally thought they had it ready for competition and did well? That doesn't mean the what they had taught wasn't what was working for them at the time of the class and how they were doing things.

Slamdunkpro said:

This, I took Chris Hart's class and have had informative communications with him when I had questions regarding the class or comp Q in general. On the other hand, I'd never email or call him and ask "so, what recipes have you changed since the class and how have you changed them?" Studends need to know their limitations.

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Good point

I don't think there are any huge secrets to be gleaned if someone told you that "new thing" they are doing... IT is all about cooking, and cooking often. Knowing your meat.

I have shared exactly what I do, and have no worries at all about someone reproducing it. IT will always be slightly different. The key is to take the technique and then mold it into what you do.

Muzzlebrake said it perfectly... He has cooked with me probably at least a dozen times now. I have cooked with him also. If there is anyone other than Todd that knows what do, it is Sean. He does things differently than I do... but has he incorporated some of the processes that fit? Absolutely. And he is cooking on an FE and CS pits now. A brilliant move if you ask me

I also have no problem sharing info with folks that dont take a class from me. I can't even count the number of folks that if they need help with something, come hang out and either come by the house and practice, show up at a comp with questions... Heck I know Bob started the pork thread... His brother Don spent the invitational the day before they won the open at the royal watching how we do our presentations. He asked a couple of questions, and I offered it up. I dont think I do anything that is magical or mystical. I hope it helped them!

I definately dont think an instructor is required to share any new techniques. I know that I tell anyone who has taken a class from me that I am available via email anytime for help. Some take me up on it. Some dont. But I dont feel obligated to share any specific thing. honestly it is the process that matters. the whole process. If I said I started doing "x" - and it didnt have any context, I dont see how it would help anyone.

IF you think about the value in a class... the $200-500-1000, whatever it is... if you are a new team and learning.... one class is much cheaper than 5 contests of cooking, and 10 practice sessions inbetween. It can pay for itself in a contest or two. just in helping save the new folks money on what they need for an event, timing, etc. For a seasoned team, there might be one "ah-ha" moment that makes everything fall into place. So that fee isnt about all the future innovations that the instructor might come up with... it is about distilling everything they have learned up until that point.

HoDeDo said:

IF you think about the value in a class... the $200-500-1000, whatever it is... if you are a new team and learning.... one class is much cheaper than 5 contests of cooking, and 10 practice sessions inbetween. It can pay for itself in a contest or two. just in helping save the new folks money on what they need for an event, timing, etc. For a seasoned team, there might be one "ah-ha" moment that makes everything fall into place. So that fee isnt about all the future innovations that the instructor might come up with... it is about distilling everything they have learned up until that point.

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Well said.......everyone is still learning, even top teams

That being said, I took Scotties class, he showed exact recipes and I do not use those recipes, I may use some techniques though :-D. Each cooker (and cook) runs things differently.
I am not about to call him and ask if he has changed anything :thumb:

bbqbrad said:

But along those lines, I don't think you should sell anything to the public that you don't do. I bought a book sold by a competition team a few years back, and they had an interesting sauce that they said they used. Since they say in the book "This is how we cook, step by step", I contacted them and asked how much success they've had with the sauce and was told that they don't use it. :shock:

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I've had some recipes that I won with that I don't use anymore. If I taught a class or wrote a book I wouldn't consider that misleading. Now if they never used it to begin with that's another story.

What expectations can a team really expect? I've taken a Fast Eddy brisket class and a Plowboy class and at the time I knew I had picked up some potentially great pointers but wasn't sure if they were worth what I paid. Those techniques are a small part of the entire comp cook for us but they help us achieve the end product we want in front of the judges. I never went to class to follow a "recipe".

AZScott said:

What expectations can a team really expect? I've taken a Fast Eddy brisket class and a Plowboy class and at the time I knew I had picked up some potentially great pointers but wasn't sure if they were worth what I paid. Those techniques are a small part of the entire comp cook for us but they help us achieve the end product we want in front of the judges. I never went to class to follow a "recipe".

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I call both Eddie and Todd friend. I strongly recommend their products. That being said, they have both helped me when I needed it, but what I learned from them is just a small part of what I do.

If you take a class from a "premier" cook and don't get your money's worth I would suspect your expectations were too high, or your not ready to capitalize on the knowledge. If I took a class from Julia Child I might learn something but I wouldnt be ready to label myself a French Chef. Just sayin'........