Reverse flow Pitmaker magnum sniper vs BBQ vault? - Page 2

Trumpstylz · 10-04-2012, 06:53 PM

Judging by these responses, you have a conundrum for sure.

SDAR · 10-04-2012, 09:32 PM

Vault is reverse flow too. Cooking on mine this year, 9 comps and 7 walks. 2 KCBS, the rest Texas cooks. Two firsts in brisket, one with 84 teams. Three seconds a 5th and a 7th. Vault is good. However, it's still the cook and not the cooker.

SDAR · 10-04-2012, 09:34 PM

All sanctioned by the way J$.

jmoney7269 · 10-04-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDAR

All sanctioned by the way J$.

Wanna try and rub something in? A sanctioned event has nothing to do with the type of cookers I'm asking about! Go texan la Bahia, sanctioned! $20 every Categeory! whoever finishes higher in each wins. I'll take that bet all day. Now i will let your probable acquiescence speak for itself, but if you have any more USEFUL information to divulge, feel free on the topic subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDAR

Vault is reverse flow too. Cooking on mine this year, 9 comps and 7 walks. 2 KCBS, the rest Texas cooks. Two firsts in brisket, one with 84 teams. Three seconds a 5th and a 7th. Vault is good. However, it's still the cook and not the cooker.

Damn, i had 5 walks in my last comp unsanctioned and had 4 walks in chappel hill sanctioned with some of the best cookers in tx! Sorry bud, your way behind if your guaging your walks compared to mine.
Basic math sir.
J$= 9 walks in 2 comps with 3 1sts> SDAR= 7 walks in 9 comps

charray · 10-04-2012, 11:29 PM

J$, my son and his buddy just got a vault 3 weeks ago and so far they love it. Did you do comp this week?

jmoney7269 · 10-04-2012, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charray

J$, my son and his buddy just got a vault 3 weeks ago and so far they love it. Did you do comp this week?

Thanks Charray. Not this weekend. We got the lick-skillet in fayetville in2 weeks, ususally a 30-40 team crowd. We got 2nd overall last year, been working hard on the recipes and techniques. Probably not worth mentioning since its unsanctioned. Thats ok I dont carry the "holier than thou" attitude anyways.
I have no problem watching alligator mouths overload hummingbird butts.

charray · 10-04-2012, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmoney7269

Probably not worth mentioning since its unsanctioned. Thats ok I dont carry the "holier than thou" attitude anyways.
I have no problem watching alligator mouths overload hummingbird butts.

Sanctioned or not, It always feels good when your Q excels. Besides, not that you would drink a beer(s) during a comp but I don't think the beer gives a pop top if its unsanctioned.

JS-TX · 10-04-2012, 11:53 PM

No doubt both are very nice cookers, but like SDAR says it's the cook and not the cookers. I know a guy/team in New Braunfels that cooks and wins on Weber kettles. He can show up in the AM and still kick some a**.

SDAR · 10-05-2012, 05:15 AM

Dang! I was just gigging you. Lighten up Francis.

The walks I spoke were only for brisket because that's what you were asking about.

jmoney7269 · 10-05-2012, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDAR

Dang! I was just gigging you. Lighten up Francis.

The walks I spoke were only for brisket because that's what you were asking about.

My bad, it's the sagatairus in me. Had nothing to do with the 12 millers, Sometimes they make a man think its go time! Lol

SDAR · 10-05-2012, 10:11 AM

No problem J. I know you have a passion for your BBQ and you obviously do well where you compete. I can't say that the product you turn in wouldn't win anywhere. Good BBQ is good BBQ. On that we agree.

Now back to the OP. I've cooked on the vault for over a year now and have done really well with brisket in competitions with it. Because of the moist environment, I have found that if I use water the vault settles in right at 250 for me. I used a Guru for the first 6 months and I quit using it because there were a few cooks in there without it that didn't seem to change either the length of the cook or the ability to hold the temperature. I get right at 6 hours on my cooks with a load of lump and a couple of small logs for the smoke.

I have also found that when I cook with water in the pan, I actually don't see the bark and color set where I want it until around 175 internal...if I wrap. I see that same bark around 160-165 when I cook briskets on my big green egg. I have wrapped and have done without. Both were moist finishes but the bark obviously stayed crustier on the unwrapped. I can get a great bark with the vault either way.

Trying to do a hot and fast with the water pan full takes a lot of fuel and a raging inferno down below to get the smoker up to 300-325. I may not be experienced enough to figure it out, but it just seems to want to stay right at 250 with the water pan full. Without water in the pan I can get it to settle down around 300 and not much lower if there is any fuel whatsoever in the basket. So when I do hot and fast on the vault, I don't use water.

I've not cooked on the sniper but it looks cool. I do like my vault but I was expecting longer cook times on a load. My big green egg spoiled me on that...so, when I cook at home overnight it is on the egg. At comps, I pull the vault because the egg is too heavy to lug around.

jmoney7269 · 10-05-2012, 10:51 AM

How much charcoal are you using for cooks and reloads? Obviously thats way easier than tending fires in offsets. How much charcoal will the basket hold? In my UDS, I use 1 mini split of pecan and cherry, 1O lbs of lump and 1/2 chimney starter to get it going. I have my fires lit by 530 and the briskie goes on @6 @300 in comps. 300 is my fav cooking temp. My thInking with the vault is briskets cooked on the top rack, 2nd rack pans to catch juice, middle rack 3 slabs for normal comps, 4th rack foil to shorten up bottom rack to make that area run a little hotter for chicken. In my mind the layout is perfect. Inhave studied and studied the vault, and I know that's what I want, there is always a little devil on my shoulder poking me saying "what about the sniper, you know you will get a better bark with a offset" ergonomically I think the vault will fit my needs better. There will only be 1 air inlet and it will not be a slide damper like current, it will be a ball valve just like for the water pan sonincan run the guru. I would think with 10 lbs of lump, some prelit briquettes and 2 mini splits should run 6 hrs no prob. I just need my fires to run from 6 am till 4 pm for comps

SDAR · 10-05-2012, 12:02 PM

Sounds like its about the same as your drum...10 lbs lump and two splits on the fuel for 6 hours...with water...the temp is going down at 6 hours too. If you choose to use water, the water will need to be replenished around the same time as the fuel. Again, if you do use water it is going to be hard in my experience to get 300 out of it. If you don't use water, I wouldn't put that much fuel in there. You will be cooking at 350 or higher based on my skills of controlling that much fuel and the way it spreads. When I go hot, I light the fire opposite the one intake (slide) that I have on mine and it helps in not spreading the fire too fast. You may be able to keep your temps down to 300 with that much fuel, but I have not had that much luck. Cooking around 300 takes more tending for me and what I have learned...a smaller load or fire and more tending or it will get too hot. The vault likes to cook really hot without water.

jmoney7269 · 10-05-2012, 01:06 PM

I do not plan on using water. I think the ideas I have will work well with using th vault. I would think the bottom shelf cooks the hottest for sure right? My only concern I that I'm fonna loose that signature direct heat bbqr's flavor I get with my UDS. Is that flavor still present with the vault when the juices hit the drip pan? Thanks for the help btw

SDAR · 10-05-2012, 02:11 PM

No problem...the bottom rack is definitely hotter without the water. Its pretty even with water in the pan. It gets the "juice smoke" in there pretty good with the drippings. However, you need to realize that fire is right under that drip pan and so if it hits the bottom, it turns to carbon and can make it bitter. I've never cooked on a drum and don't even think I've ate off of one. I'm not sure I can answer your question.

10-04-2012, 06:53 PM	#16
Trumpstylz is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 10-29-11 Location: Chicagoland	Judging by these responses, you have a conundrum for sure. __________________ Weber One Touch Gold 2001 Weber Genesis that is no longer used since the OTG

10-04-2012, 11:29 PM	#20
charray On the road to being a farker Join Date: 08-20-12 Location: Gardena, CA	J$, my son and his buddy just got a vault 3 weeks ago and so far they love it. Did you do comp this week? __________________ Modified Treager 07E, A-Maze-N tube, Maverick, Frogmats, etc.

10-04-2012, 09:32 PM	#17
SDAR Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 09-20-11 Location: Ohio Name/Nickname : Allen	Vault is reverse flow too. Cooking on mine this year, 9 comps and 7 walks. 2 KCBS, the rest Texas cooks. Two firsts in brisket, one with 84 teams. Three seconds a 5th and a 7th. Vault is good. However, it's still the cook and not the cooker.

10-04-2012, 09:34 PM	#18
SDAR Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 09-20-11 Location: Ohio Name/Nickname : Allen	All sanctioned by the way J$.

10-04-2012, 11:53 PM	#23
JS-TX is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 02-17-10 Location: San Antonio, TX	No doubt both are very nice cookers, but like SDAR says it's the cook and not the cookers. I know a guy/team in New Braunfels that cooks and wins on Weber kettles. He can show up in the AM and still kick some a**.

10-05-2012, 05:15 AM	#24
SDAR Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 09-20-11 Location: Ohio Name/Nickname : Allen	Dang! I was just gigging you. Lighten up Francis. The walks I spoke were only for brisket because that's what you were asking about.

10-05-2012, 10:11 AM	#26
SDAR Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 09-20-11 Location: Ohio Name/Nickname : Allen	No problem J. I know you have a passion for your BBQ and you obviously do well where you compete. I can't say that the product you turn in wouldn't win anywhere. Good BBQ is good BBQ. On that we agree. Now back to the OP. I've cooked on the vault for over a year now and have done really well with brisket in competitions with it. Because of the moist environment, I have found that if I use water the vault settles in right at 250 for me. I used a Guru for the first 6 months and I quit using it because there were a few cooks in there without it that didn't seem to change either the length of the cook or the ability to hold the temperature. I get right at 6 hours on my cooks with a load of lump and a couple of small logs for the smoke. I have also found that when I cook with water in the pan, I actually don't see the bark and color set where I want it until around 175 internal...if I wrap. I see that same bark around 160-165 when I cook briskets on my big green egg. I have wrapped and have done without. Both were moist finishes but the bark obviously stayed crustier on the unwrapped. I can get a great bark with the vault either way. Trying to do a hot and fast with the water pan full takes a lot of fuel and a raging inferno down below to get the smoker up to 300-325. I may not be experienced enough to figure it out, but it just seems to want to stay right at 250 with the water pan full. Without water in the pan I can get it to settle down around 300 and not much lower if there is any fuel whatsoever in the basket. So when I do hot and fast on the vault, I don't use water. I've not cooked on the sniper but it looks cool. I do like my vault but I was expecting longer cook times on a load. My big green egg spoiled me on that...so, when I cook at home overnight it is on the egg. At comps, I pull the vault because the egg is too heavy to lug around.

10-05-2012, 10:51 AM	#27
jmoney7269 Banned Join Date: 02-07-11 Location: brenham, texas	How much charcoal are you using for cooks and reloads? Obviously thats way easier than tending fires in offsets. How much charcoal will the basket hold? In my UDS, I use 1 mini split of pecan and cherry, 1O lbs of lump and 1/2 chimney starter to get it going. I have my fires lit by 530 and the briskie goes on @6 @300 in comps. 300 is my fav cooking temp. My thInking with the vault is briskets cooked on the top rack, 2nd rack pans to catch juice, middle rack 3 slabs for normal comps, 4th rack foil to shorten up bottom rack to make that area run a little hotter for chicken. In my mind the layout is perfect. Inhave studied and studied the vault, and I know that's what I want, there is always a little devil on my shoulder poking me saying "what about the sniper, you know you will get a better bark with a offset" ergonomically I think the vault will fit my needs better. There will only be 1 air inlet and it will not be a slide damper like current, it will be a ball valve just like for the water pan sonincan run the guru. I would think with 10 lbs of lump, some prelit briquettes and 2 mini splits should run 6 hrs no prob. I just need my fires to run from 6 am till 4 pm for comps

10-05-2012, 12:02 PM	#28
SDAR Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 09-20-11 Location: Ohio Name/Nickname : Allen	Sounds like its about the same as your drum...10 lbs lump and two splits on the fuel for 6 hours...with water...the temp is going down at 6 hours too. If you choose to use water, the water will need to be replenished around the same time as the fuel. Again, if you do use water it is going to be hard in my experience to get 300 out of it. If you don't use water, I wouldn't put that much fuel in there. You will be cooking at 350 or higher based on my skills of controlling that much fuel and the way it spreads. When I go hot, I light the fire opposite the one intake (slide) that I have on mine and it helps in not spreading the fire too fast. You may be able to keep your temps down to 300 with that much fuel, but I have not had that much luck. Cooking around 300 takes more tending for me and what I have learned...a smaller load or fire and more tending or it will get too hot. The vault likes to cook really hot without water.

10-05-2012, 01:06 PM	#29
jmoney7269 Banned Join Date: 02-07-11 Location: brenham, texas	I do not plan on using water. I think the ideas I have will work well with using th vault. I would think the bottom shelf cooks the hottest for sure right? My only concern I that I'm fonna loose that signature direct heat bbqr's flavor I get with my UDS. Is that flavor still present with the vault when the juices hit the drip pan? Thanks for the help btw

10-05-2012, 02:11 PM	#30
SDAR Quintessential Chatty Farker Join Date: 09-20-11 Location: Ohio Name/Nickname : Allen	No problem...the bottom rack is definitely hotter without the water. Its pretty even with water in the pan. It gets the "juice smoke" in there pretty good with the drippings. However, you need to realize that fire is right under that drip pan and so if it hits the bottom, it turns to carbon and can make it bitter. I've never cooked on a drum and don't even think I've ate off of one. I'm not sure I can answer your question.