Destroy the evidence

drbbq · 03-21-2012, 10:01 AM

Anybody care to explain the portion of the KCBS agenda that I've pasted below?

It seems outrageous to me that the Executive Director and the President want to make sure there is no evidence of what happens in these secret meetings. I would think it's to everyone's advantage to have these recordings so there is a paper trail of these sensitive matters. I also think these recordings are part of the legacy of KCBS and it's archives and should always be kept.
Surely Carolyn can figure out a way to not "leave them laying about" without destroying them.

Candy Weaver - Please see the legal opinion following. Carolyn's questions were:

(1) should we be recording closed session at all?

(2) May we delete/destroy after the minutes are approved. Don't want to violate any sunshine laws or act improperly, but do not want discoverable issues on sensitive matters left laying about. Based on this opinion, I make the following motions:

MOTION: Candy Weaver - I move that the Accuconference recording of closed session meetings be discontinued and all past recordings of all KCBS meetings be discarded.

MOTION: Candy Weaver - Further, I moved that all future Accuconference recording of board meetings made be eliminated after the completion and posting of the MP3 recording of the meeting on kcbs.us.

Candy Sue · 03-21-2012, 10:40 AM

This is my own opinion and does not reflect KCBS or the board of directors!

Ray, it's a business records keeping matter! Why have sensitive materials around? There's no corporate reason to keep them according to lawyers. You, as a former board member, should know what executive or closed sessions are made of! Whenever contractual matters or matters relating to individuals where names are named, it is discussed in closed session. That's the law, not a KCBS thing. Anything actionable after the closed session is done in open session and is a matter in the minutes (the official record) and on the MP3 recording.

Again, these are only my words and my opinions. Since I brought the issue to the board meeting tonight, I do know my reasons for doing so.

drbbq · 03-21-2012, 11:05 AM

Thanks for the answer Candy but I still have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't want a legit record of what happens in these sessions. Sensitive records are stored all the time by big and small companies without a problem.
As Tony Stone always used to remind me there are three sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth. A recording can cut right to the truth if there is a disagreement at a later date.

And for the record, Executive Session was a rare thing in my day saved only for very serious matters.

Smoke Ring · 03-21-2012, 01:03 PM

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that issues are discussed in closed session that are never put on the agenda and non-board members are allowed in the executive sessions which I understand is supposed to be limited to board members only. Need to destroy the evidence.

SirPorkaLot · 03-21-2012, 01:10 PM

Whether there is any impropriety going on or not. Destroying any records of any meetings (closed or open session) gives the impression of something going on that shouldn't be.

With all the problems KCBS has these days I can't imagine why anyone would think this would be an appropriate time to do this.

timzcardz · 03-21-2012, 01:42 PM

It seems strange to me.

Whether to retain the documents/records or not is purely a corporate decision.

However, I would expect that decision to be made in the form of a records retention policy that would cover the time periods for which various types of records should be retained.

I assume that no such document currently exists, for if one did, I would reasonably expect it to already provide for the records discussed here, and if so I would expect that the motion would be to ammend the policy.

Given the above, it does . . .

1. raise my suspicion as to why this is an urgent matter now and not part of the establishment/implementation of an all encompassing records retention policy.

2. makes me wonder what sort of people are entrusted with the directorship of the KCBS that they may be concerned with something that they said being attrributed to them.

3. makes me wonder why something being subject to discovery would be an issue if everything was done with honesty and integrity. If everything is done with integrity records are also a good defense.

4. provide the opportunity for the current board to prove their integirty (or otherwise) with their vote.

Smoke Ring · 03-21-2012, 01:44 PM

Maybe it's because in the event of a lawsuit it may be necessary to subpoena those recordings and the participants don't want that to happen. The membership shouldn't allow KCBS to destroy records. The board represents the members.

Slamdunkpro · 03-21-2012, 01:50 PM

This might be an appropriate thing to do (stop laughing, I can hear you, seriously....) however, considering the timing, the appearance of impropriety is far more damaging to the organization than (I would hope) any back room shenanigans. What bothers me more as a dues paying member is the expenditure of organization funds, time and effort trying to protect or in this case destroy records of secrecy and secret proceedings. Does the Board really have that much to hide?

HawgNationBBQ · 03-21-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro

..the appearance of impropriety is far more damaging to the organization...

Whether right or wrong, that was my initial thought.

nthole · 03-21-2012, 02:56 PM

I just can't help but wonder what on earth is so super secret in a BARBECUE MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION that must be destroyed before anyone finds out?!?! If people are worried about lawyers requesting this information my only response to that is WHAT ON EARTH IS A BARBECUE MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION DOING that must be destroyed before it can be found out?!?!

bigabyte · 03-21-2012, 02:57 PM

Yeah, you know how those corporate BBQ spies are. You leave sensitive materials out from a KCBS meeting, and next thing you know all those other BBQ organizations out there pounce on it.

Slamdunkpro · 03-21-2012, 03:49 PM

I just had a consult with our corporate lawyer and mentioned this in casual conversation on the way out. Her response: "Sounds like someone got wind of a pending lawsuit or IRS investigation".

Alexa RnQ · 03-21-2012, 05:04 PM

"The very word ‘secrecy’ is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it."

YankeeBBQ · 03-21-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivaHerself

"The very word ‘secrecy’ is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it."

You forgot to Credit John F. Kennedy

Alexa RnQ · 03-21-2012, 06:39 PM

And for extra points, did you get it without googling?

03-21-2012, 10:01 AM	#1
drbbq is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 10-26-04 Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida	Destroy the evidence Anybody care to explain the portion of the KCBS agenda that I've pasted below? It seems outrageous to me that the Executive Director and the President want to make sure there is no evidence of what happens in these secret meetings. I would think it's to everyone's advantage to have these recordings so there is a paper trail of these sensitive matters. I also think these recordings are part of the legacy of KCBS and it's archives and should always be kept. Surely Carolyn can figure out a way to not "leave them laying about" without destroying them. Candy Weaver - Please see the legal opinion following. Carolyn's questions were: (1) should we be recording closed session at all? (2) May we delete/destroy after the minutes are approved. Don't want to violate any sunshine laws or act improperly, but do not want discoverable issues on sensitive matters left laying about. Based on this opinion, I make the following motions: MOTION: Candy Weaver - I move that the Accuconference recording of closed session meetings be discontinued and all past recordings of all KCBS meetings be discarded. MOTION: Candy Weaver - Further, I moved that all future Accuconference recording of board meetings made be eliminated after the completion and posting of the MP3 recording of the meeting on kcbs.us. __________________ Ray Lampe Dr. BBQ The Honey Badger of BBQ. I just don't give a sh!t.

03-21-2012, 11:05 AM	#3
drbbq is One Chatty Farker Join Date: 10-26-04 Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida	Thanks for the answer Candy but I still have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't want a legit record of what happens in these sessions. Sensitive records are stored all the time by big and small companies without a problem. As Tony Stone always used to remind me there are three sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth. A recording can cut right to the truth if there is a disagreement at a later date. And for the record, Executive Session was a rare thing in my day saved only for very serious matters. __________________ Ray Lampe Dr. BBQ The Honey Badger of BBQ. I just don't give a sh!t.

03-21-2012, 01:10 PM	#5
SirPorkaLot somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 08-31-09 Location: Homeworth, OH Name/Nickname : John	Whether there is any impropriety going on or not. Destroying any records of any meetings (closed or open session) gives the impression of something going on that shouldn't be. With all the problems KCBS has these days I can't imagine why anyone would think this would be an appropriate time to do this. __________________ John Last edited by SirPorkaLot; 03-21-2012 at 01:43 PM..

03-21-2012, 01:42 PM	#6
timzcardz Babbling Farker Join Date: 07-22-05 Location: Long Island, NY	It seems strange to me. Whether to retain the documents/records or not is purely a corporate decision. However, I would expect that decision to be made in the form of a records retention policy that would cover the time periods for which various types of records should be retained. I assume that no such document currently exists, for if one did, I would reasonably expect it to already provide for the records discussed here, and if so I would expect that the motion would be to ammend the policy. Given the above, it does . . . 1. raise my suspicion as to why this is an urgent matter now and not part of the establishment/implementation of an all encompassing records retention policy. 2. makes me wonder what sort of people are entrusted with the directorship of the KCBS that they may be concerned with something that they said being attrributed to them. 3. makes me wonder why something being subject to discovery would be an issue if everything was done with honesty and integrity. If everything is done with integrity records are also a good defense. 4. provide the opportunity for the current board to prove their integirty (or otherwise) with their vote. __________________ GRIM REAPER SMOKERS - "BBQ To Die For" ™ "Founders Club" Operation BBQ Relief Weber Smokey Mountain x 3 Weber Genesis Silver x 2 Weber One Touch Gold Weber Performer x 2 Weber Smokey Joe Bottle of Absolut Bottle of Beer Everything Ripken, "Cards and Que. One tastes of cardboard, the other sweet blue." ©

03-21-2012, 01:50 PM	#8
Slamdunkpro Babbling Farker Join Date: 02-27-07 Location: Northern VA	This might be an appropriate thing to do (stop laughing, I can hear you, seriously....) however, considering the timing, the appearance of impropriety is far more damaging to the organization than (I would hope) any back room shenanigans. What bothers me more as a dues paying member is the expenditure of organization funds, time and effort trying to protect or in this case destroy records of secrecy and secret proceedings. Does the Board really have that much to hide? __________________ Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA, Creekstone Farms, Myron Mixon Smokers & The BBQ Guru MABA 2014 Team of the Year Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast", 2 Vulcan V33's & 1 V9 Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens ----------------- MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President KCBS Certified Judge - #23289

03-21-2012, 10:40 AM	#2
Candy Sue is one Smokin' Farker Join Date: 09-03-09 Location: Pine Bluff, AR	This is my own opinion and does not reflect KCBS or the board of directors! Ray, it's a business records keeping matter! Why have sensitive materials around? There's no corporate reason to keep them according to lawyers. You, as a former board member, should know what executive or closed sessions are made of! Whenever contractual matters or matters relating to individuals where names are named, it is discussed in closed session. That's the law, not a KCBS thing. Anything actionable after the closed session is done in open session and is a matter in the minutes (the official record) and on the MP3 recording. Again, these are only my words and my opinions. Since I brought the issue to the board meeting tonight, I do know my reasons for doing so.

03-21-2012, 01:03 PM	#4
Smoke Ring Knows what a fatty is. Join Date: 05-31-07 Location: Santa Fe, NM	Maybe it has something to do with the fact that issues are discussed in closed session that are never put on the agenda and non-board members are allowed in the executive sessions which I understand is supposed to be limited to board members only. Need to destroy the evidence.

03-21-2012, 01:44 PM	#7
Smoke Ring Knows what a fatty is. Join Date: 05-31-07 Location: Santa Fe, NM	Maybe it's because in the event of a lawsuit it may be necessary to subpoena those recordings and the participants don't want that to happen. The membership shouldn't allow KCBS to destroy records. The board represents the members.

03-21-2012, 02:56 PM	#10
nthole Babbling Farker Join Date: 08-11-03 Location: St. Louis	I just can't help but wonder what on earth is so super secret in a BARBECUE MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION that must be destroyed before anyone finds out?!?! If people are worried about lawyers requesting this information my only response to that is WHAT ON EARTH IS A BARBECUE MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATION DOING that must be destroyed before it can be found out?!?! __________________ Neil -- "Easy Bake Master" NB Bandera [gone to heaven...conveniently located in Long Island, NY] Rebel 23, WSM A, WSM B, UDS, Easy Bake Oven Pork Pistols BBQ MOFO Illuminati MOINK...It's what's for linner.

03-21-2012, 02:57 PM	#11
bigabyte somebody shut me the fark up. Join Date: 05-10-06 Location: Overland Fark, KS	Yeah, you know how those corporate BBQ spies are. You leave sensitive materials out from a KCBS meeting, and next thing you know all those other BBQ organizations out there pounce on it. __________________ Asshattatron Farkanaut, CGCFO Chief Galactic Crockpot Foil Officer *Certified MOINK Baller & IMBAS Certified MOINK Ball Judge #0003 - Are you MOINK Certified?* *Sole recipient of the Silverfinger and fingerlickin Awards!* Don't forget about the Throwdown Thingies! The Secret Squirrel Society doesn't exist - Zero Club Duh.

03-21-2012, 03:49 PM	#12
Slamdunkpro Babbling Farker Join Date: 02-27-07 Location: Northern VA	I just had a consult with our corporate lawyer and mentioned this in casual conversation on the way out. Her response: "Sounds like someone got wind of a pending lawsuit or IRS investigation". __________________ Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA, Creekstone Farms, Myron Mixon Smokers & The BBQ Guru MABA 2014 Team of the Year Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast", 2 Vulcan V33's & 1 V9 Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens ----------------- MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President KCBS Certified Judge - #23289

03-21-2012, 05:04 PM	#13
Alexa RnQ is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 09-12-07 Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix	"The very word ‘secrecy’ is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it." __________________ . Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url]

03-21-2012, 06:39 PM	#15
Alexa RnQ is Blowin Smoke! Join Date: 09-12-07 Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix	And for extra points, did you get it without googling? __________________ . Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url]