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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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03-09-2009, 08:46 PM | #16 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 06-21-07
Location: Overland Park, KS
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In KCBS scoring, every single point matters. So even if one of the six judges gives you an extra appearance point for a tight looking box, it could make a difference. We did a contest last Saturday where the top 4 rib scores were 169.1430, 169.1428, 169.1426, and 169.1426. Places 2-4 are probably kicking themselves for being 1 piece of parsley away from a win.
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Paul Ostrom The Pickled Pig Twitter - @ThePickledPig CBJ, WSM, UDS Cookers, Weber Gasser, Weber One Touch Gold Kettle, |
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03-09-2009, 09:00 PM | #17 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-07-07
Location: Ankeny, IA
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I was judginig a couple of years ago at the BarbeQlossal in Des Moines. One of the judges at the table downrated a pork entry because the box only had pulled pork in it. She said if they wanted a higher score they had to put in sliced pork in her opinion. WTF? Don't assume because the garnish is not up to your standards that there is something wrong with the meat. Just judge the meat on it's merit.
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Matt Head Cook Water Tower BBQ Current: 2017 Yoder YS640 (2021), BWS Extended Party (2012), 14" WSM (2019, used, I have a problem) Previous: BWS Competitor (sold 2012), WSM - 18.5" (2009, sold 2011), WSM - 18.5" (2004, sold 2010) Superfast Orange Thermopen, Yellow MK4, Fireboard, Railroad Detective |
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03-09-2009, 09:57 PM | #18 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 09-27-06
Location: Worcester mass
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Maybe they mistook the parsley for brisket
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Sully lunchmeat BBQ team KCBS Certified BBQ Judge New England Barbecue Society Board of Directors BAAAHHHBEQUE !!! 2 WSM more of a good thing Brinkman offset Backwoods competitor Weber Performer 22' weber kettle w/rottiserie 17" table top weber kettle & weber smokey joe. |
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03-09-2009, 10:23 PM | #19 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-22-07
Location: Springfield, MO
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Like I said, these threads are always interesting! I like to see what folk think to help me when I judge and think about what I turn in when I do competition. The more information from both sides helps with both.
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my avatar swiped fatties from the plate....look how sorry he is. ________ Meat. NB Bandera with mods Weber 22 .5" x 2, 26.75" x 1 UDS x 3 KCBS CBJ Created "The Great Spam Revelation of 2011." www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111155 |
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03-10-2009, 05:52 AM | #20 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 09-10-08
Location: Oceanside, New York
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I guess my point or need for clarification is this: are the suggestiosn offered for boxes the opinions of competitiors or judges and if those offering suggestions are judges and using the criteria examples given, parsley placement, brush strokes etc, how do they reconcile that with the fact that those are not the instructions, for the most part, by KCBS reps? The judges class was clear that we may judge on what we like or dont like as judges but there are clear guidelines that i fear judges may be slowly getting away and instituting there own criteria
Thoughts?
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Tim- Stubborn Bull BBQ Team Extreme BBQ Trailer 2 Humphrey Pints and Half Pint, 2 Cubed Pints 18" WSM, Hasty Bake Ranger, Weber Performer Old No 7 |
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03-10-2009, 06:39 AM | #21 |
Moderator
Join Date: 09-17-05
Location: Mooresville, NC
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As much as the cooks want a perfect judging pool based on a standard set of rules it's impossible to happen. It's still a reliable system but ultimately based on subjectivity and a person's senses (sight, taste, touch etc). Judging is a hobby not a paid position. Especially if a contest has only 50-75% certified judges, you've got to think about pleasing the remaining 25-50% who have never seen a turn in box before and making your box standout.
Most of the suggestions seen here come from the competitors (some of whom are also judges) and a smaller % come from judges only. Coming from a the competitor, it makes perfect sense that their suggestions are focused on the details to try to gain an extra a point or two as mentioned above.. From a judge, it would only be valuable if that's what they know about how other judges think and not what they do themselves.
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XL BGE (#2) & Performer Platinum Former owner: Jambo Backyard, Klose BYC, Lonestar Vertical offset w/ Insulated Firebox, Medium Spicewine, Pitts & Spitts, XL BGE (#1) & (2) Medium BGE's, 22" WSM & (2) 18" WSM's, 18" & 22" Weber Kettles Last edited by MilitantSquatter; 03-10-2009 at 06:59 AM.. |
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03-10-2009, 08:41 AM | #22 | |||||
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
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If a box looks like the meat an garnish were just tossed in, then yes, I'm not going to score it well on appearance, and I'm going to be more critical when it comes to taste and tenderness. Like it or not, we do "eat with our eyes". I'm not saying that a single piece of parsley out of place is going to make me knock off points left and right... What I'm saying is that a well put together box is going to make me want to score it higher... Like it or not, that's the way it is... Quote:
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Again, I didn't say that there was any thing wrong with the meat... Again, it's the attention to detail... If a box looks good, well put together, scoring it up is easier... There's an anticipation to trying the meat and because of that I'll be more open to the flavors put before me. If a box looks like crap, it's going to take more for me to score it up and to be honest, in the back of my mind I'm going to be thinking, "They didn't care about presentation, what else didn't they care about?" If presentation didn't matter, why do we score on appearance?
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Jeff CBJ# 23376 Stockcar BBQ Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life! If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish! Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe. |
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03-10-2009, 04:41 PM | #23 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-07-07
Location: Ankeny, IA
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The point I was making about the other judge was in response to the comment about "They didn't care about presentation, what else didn't they care about?" In that instance, she was injecting her own personal beliefs into the scorinig. I think assuming that the cook did something else poorly because the garnish looks bad is injecting your own rules into the system. Deduct from the appearance score if it is warranted, but try to start with a fresh mind on taste and tenderness. Presentation does matter and sometimes the garnish doesn't look as good as it could. I'd also say what looks good to you as garnish, may not be to my liking. Maybe I think all garnish should look like putting greens and maybe you think differently. To some, big leafy lettuce might be appealing. To others, that may look sloppy. I'm a cook first and sometimes when I'm judging, it's hard to look past the garnish and focus on the meat. However, I've gotten to the point where I remind myself every time before the box is opened to focus on the meat. I think it's helped me be more consistent with the appearance scores I write down. Think of it this way, you should get the same or very nearly the same score for an entry as far as taste and tenderness are concerned whether you were blind folded or not.
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Matt Head Cook Water Tower BBQ Current: 2017 Yoder YS640 (2021), BWS Extended Party (2012), 14" WSM (2019, used, I have a problem) Previous: BWS Competitor (sold 2012), WSM - 18.5" (2009, sold 2011), WSM - 18.5" (2004, sold 2010) Superfast Orange Thermopen, Yellow MK4, Fireboard, Railroad Detective |
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03-10-2009, 08:08 PM | #24 |
On the road to being a farker
Join Date: 03-18-08
Location: lakeland ,fl FBA
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if your judging meat why is there green stuff in the box???????
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03-10-2009, 08:36 PM | #25 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-22-07
Location: Springfield, MO
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Jeff and Matt, you both have good insight. Both are trying to be fair and more opinions are always good: however, I do believe that the appearance does influence, to some degree, the other scores. Not saying that's right or wrong but I think it is just the way it is.
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my avatar swiped fatties from the plate....look how sorry he is. ________ Meat. NB Bandera with mods Weber 22 .5" x 2, 26.75" x 1 UDS x 3 KCBS CBJ Created "The Great Spam Revelation of 2011." www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111155 |
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03-11-2009, 08:39 AM | #26 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
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In actually, I think we are both very close on this subject. Both of us can see where if a judge is not careful, the appearance can affect the other two scores. The simple fact that both you and I have had to remind ourselves that appearance should have no bearing on taste or tenderness proves this out. It is for that reason that we all have posted photos of test boxes to see where things can be improved not only for the appearance, but also for the carryover with less careful judges. (Oh, and for my money, the putting green looks much better.)
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Jeff CBJ# 23376 Stockcar BBQ Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life! If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish! Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe. |
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03-11-2009, 10:57 AM | #27 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 12-28-06
Location: Porkbutt Ky
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In these hard economic times, the KCBS could sell us green washable food grade putting green looking things that fit perfect in the box. We wouldnt have to keep buying parsley/lettuce, and ice to keep that stuff cold saving our team about $20 a contest total.
Saves us all money and makes all garnishes equal. hahaha I kinda like it!
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Spicewine Turbo 2007 model Perry Brothers & Sons Bar-B-Q |
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03-11-2009, 11:40 AM | #28 | |
Is lookin for wood to cook with.
Join Date: 10-10-08
Location: Overland Pork, Kansas
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You don't suppose there are parsely farmers sending PAC money to the KCBS do you................
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Dave Head Cook and Grill Cleaner [B][SIZE=3]Smokin' Porky BBQ[/SIZE][/B] Good-One Smoker Old used Trailer 3 CBJ's on Team [URL]http://bsbbq.spaces.live.com/[/URL] |
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03-11-2009, 01:12 PM | #29 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 08-11-03
Location: Coldwater, MS (just south of Memphis)
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Now when I made that comment, I prefaced it with "If I HAD to find something wrong...." It was not meant as anything other than constructive criticism. While I didn't catch it the first time around (even if I had, I seriously doubt it would have affected my scoring), someone else may have caught it on that initial glance. And even if the overall appearance made them want to go to town on the box, if they were a stickler for details, it may have made them have to debate between a 9 or an 8. This is why a lot of folks here go back and really critique turn in boxes posted here to help catch little glitches like that. This way things are addressed so that the judge who is a stickler for details doesn't have to debate.
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Richie Perfect Smoke BBQ Team Pork Me Baby BBQ Team Coldwater, MS (just south of Memphis) KCBS CBJ #7595 NB Bandera Mod E Custom Drum Smoker 18" Weber Smoky Mountain Weber Kettle One Touch Silver |
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03-11-2009, 06:07 PM | #30 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-22-07
Location: Springfield, MO
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Richie, that's a good post. Good honest approach.
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my avatar swiped fatties from the plate....look how sorry he is. ________ Meat. NB Bandera with mods Weber 22 .5" x 2, 26.75" x 1 UDS x 3 KCBS CBJ Created "The Great Spam Revelation of 2011." www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111155 |
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