2 Problems for new Yoder Wichita owner

I think the jury is still out on whether Joe knows how to properly run an offset. He's a good guy but it wouldn't surprise me if his smokestack is partially closed or something. I used to be a sub of his and he is a good cook overall but I'm not convinced his fire management skills are where they could be. In this case, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the Kingman not requiring a fan in the stillness of the night until further notice.

JokerBroker said:

I think the jury is still out on whether Joe knows how to properly run an offset. He's a good guy but it wouldn't surprise me if his smokestack is partially closed or something. I used to be a sub of his and he is a good cook overall but I'm not convinced his fire management skills are where they could be. In this case, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to the Kingman not requiring a fan in the stillness of the night until further notice.

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When he first got that Kingman delivered and did his first test with it he explicitly called out how he always leaves the smokestack wide open. Not only that, in the fan video he was already being sponsored by Timber Milling & Kiln, and they were supplying him with kiln-dried splits.

That Kingman was used when he got it, and I wondered at the time why the original owner got rid of it. Those units have the sliding heat management plate vent near the firebox though, and it could be that when it's closed the cooker behaves more like the Wichita because I've seen videos where his Kingman looked like it was flowing nicely, but at other times smoke was just backing out through the firebox door vent constantly. In one of his videos he said rain absolutely destroyed the Kingman's ability to burn properly. He thought humidity was the culprit, but he said he had to crack open the top lid on the firebox just to keep the fire going.

Another thing about Yoder's big square fireboxes is the heavy wood grate is very tall, and if you don't keep the coals from falling through the grate they end up so far below the wood they probably don't help keep it lit. My guess is they made them tall because you can't shovel out the ashes any other way during a cook due to the door not extending to the bottom of the firebox. Bad design. I'd make the door go all the way down, reduce the height of the wood grate, and also move the vent down as low as it will go.

Looks open:

Slamkeys,
C&D Scrap Metal will pay you in $2 bills for that thing. Put it out of its misery.

Rockinar said:

Slamkeys,
C&D Scrap Metal will pay you in $2 bills for that thing. Put it out of its misery.

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I can't stop now - I'm working on my next MOD!

So I finally bit the bullet and decided to go with the updated damper, rather than door, and I'm actually quite shocked... it works and quite well. With the way the new damper covers up the top vent on the firebox door it disallows that smoke and heat to escape through the firebox door, and instead it forces the smoke and heat into the smoking chamber.

I got the updated damper about a month ago and have spent at least 30+ hours just burning wood to see how well it works. I've used it in the rain, in some 15+MPH winds and I'm actually quite impressed with how much better it works. It still needs a full chimney of whitened over charcoal every couple of hours to replenish the coal bed, but overall it's much better than it used to be.




Slamkeys, I do wonder what your end game here is. Yoder has already admitted they had an issue, redesigned their cookers to address it, and have offered fixes to help their older models work better. What is it that you want Yoder to do from here to satisfy you?

I have followed this thread since the beginning. I built a smoker with around about the same dimensions as the Wichita. I used this thread to help me design my firebox door and intake hoping I would have a cooker that drafts well. I’m not quite finished painting it but I should be done in the next couple days. My question to slamkey is, what does Yoder need to do for you to be happy? Do you want them to tell you you’re right and they’re wrong? Buy your smoker back? Just curious is all. Like I said though, I have found this thread useful.

SmoothBoarBBQ said:

Slamkeys, I do wonder what your end game here is. Yoder has already admitted they had an issue, redesigned their cookers to address it, and have offered fixes to help their older models work better. What is it that you want Yoder to do from here to satisfy you?

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12ring said:

My question to slamkey is, what does Yoder need to do for you to be happy? Do you want them to tell you you’re right and they’re wrong? Buy your smoker back? Just curious is all. Like I said though, I have found this thread useful.

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I pretty much ran the course of dealing with my smoker, and it works fine for me now, although I'm still experimenting. Yoder did what they could to replace my defective items - no complaints there. The only thing left is to see if it lasts for 75 years per the warranty. I'll be long gone before then, but I'd bet Yoder Smokers is still around and going strong. A few complainers on a forum aren't going to affect them at all.

I don't spend that much time on forums, but I do visit when a thread gets updated or I find something interesting to share. I can't really post on the Yoder forum anymore, so I come to forums like this one. My recent posts were inspired by videos I stumbled accross via YouTube autoplay showing Yoder owners talking about flow issues on the larger models, because our discussions have mainly focused on the Wichita and the Cheyenne models, which have been called Yoder's "smaller offsets."

I was very surprised to hear an owner of a Durango 24" and a Frontiersman 30" say they both "backdraft awfully, and whenever you open the door you just get a face full of smoke," and also says his favorite cooker was the "crude" Horizon because it drafts well. I think that lends itself to the discussion, especially because the guy has many smokers to compare, but I don't really care what comes of it one way or the other. It's like any other information out there - you have to decide for yourself whether it's real or fake. I'm not an advocate for any person or company. I'm just a guy who owns a Loaded Wichita and is working on making good BBQ whenever he can find the free time, which hasn't been very often lately.

I get the feeling some folks are getting fatigued on this topic. That's fine. You know what they say when it comes to free speech: "If you don't like the channel, change it." The only thing I could do to make the entire issue go away would be to come back here and announce that I had made a huge mistake and I was doing it wrong the entire time. My bad. Does that help?

Let me start off by saying that I love Yoder. I purchased a Wichita in 2007, a YS480 in 2014, and then a YS640 Comp in 2017. I had to sell the Wichita in exchange for a Horizon. Why? Because I spent countless hours trying to get a free-flowing, blue smoke cook. I just could never get it without cracking the door and even then... It was tough to maintain.

Anway, the Horizon is smooth and exactly what I expect. I can run 45-50 minutes without even looking...open firebox to add more wood and close once ignited. It just burns so much cleaner.

I think it has all to do with airflow on the Wichita. The exhaust is too small and something about what slamkeys says on the firebox side. That stuff is beyond me... But, there is an airflow issue.

Yoder, you can trash me, but I can provide receipts for all three of my cookers. Purchased the Wichita from ATBBQ, 480 from Lincoln, NE dealer, and 640 from Norfolk, NE dealer.

patrickd26 said:

I spent countless hours trying to get a free-flowing, blue smoke cook. I just could never get it without cracking the door and even then... It was tough to maintain.

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I saw a new T-Roy Cooks video that shows his Wichita in the background with the door cracked, and you can see how weak the draw is with the Yoder design. Whenever the wood is putting off smoke it just billows out of the fire door. At some point the wood becomes solid coals and you can't see smoke anymore, but the same amount of heat still rises from the open door, in my experience. That's why I started experimenting with a lower intake, I wanted all my heat to move into the cooker, not into my back yard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh7bkGwsoIc

I had a couple of cooks (before I modded the fire door) where there was a 5-10 mph breeze blowing directly into the firebox end, and that created enough pressure to overcome the lack of draw on this smoker, but those days are few and far between unless you keep moving the cooker around to catch the wind. I refuse to use an electric fan to simulate wind on those calm days!

Finally got the new door on...about a year later? I'd gotten pretty good at managing the fire in this thing using a chopped up cookie sheet, attached to the end of the firebox with tie wire.

Cooks pretty nice now! Still wish I had a lefty because of how the wind blows through that part of my yard, but that ain't happening. Needs some rust to match the rest of the cooker.

Here is what I had to do

Here is my Cheyenne mod

ATBBQ has some new photos posted for the Wichita. The vent is now lowered in the photos. I didn't see any changes in the Cheyenne photos yet.

No mention of "New and Improved" anywhere. Maybe the difference in performance was too subtle to mention.

I did pull the trigger on the "updated" Kingman... Will get it in a few weeks.
Will get interesting if it works as it should, it's a bit of gamble with my $$$...


Since there was almost no complaints on the original Kingman, it hopefully gets even better with the new door on it.

Darkfix said:

I did pull the trigger on the "updated" Kingman... Will get it in a few weeks.
Will get interesting if it works as it should, it's a bit of gamble with my $$$...


Since there was almost no complaints on the original Kingman, it hopefully gets even better with the new door on it.

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I'm just curious why you decided to go with the Kingman? Have you read about the issues with other Yoder offsets before you made the purchase?

SmoothBoarBBQ said:

I'm just curious why you decided to go with the Kingman? Have you read about the issues with other Yoder offsets before you made the purchase?

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Yes I did..


Did talk to an BBQ Team that uses Kingman and they were very satisfied.
I've read all Slamkeys posts here and there, and I was about to get the Witcita but since many owners appears to have some issues with old and new door I decided to not buy that one.


Also I live in Europe, and Yoder is more or less the only real USA offset smoker you can order. I did talk to Horizon several times, but they didn't get back to me with shipping, so their loss. Also talked to Gator Pits, but the shipping was sadly insane.


If there are any issues with airflow with the Kingman I will mod it.


Will post more soon as I tried it out...

Got my Kingman today and played with it for several hours.


Will post pictures and a longer update later on.
After some cleaning and inside oiled up it was time to fire it up.


To keep it short, Kingman works as it should I must say.


Even if I haven't touched an offset before I had no problem maintaining 225-250F (left side) and 250-275F (right side).



I could get it close as 0-25F between both sides.


I noticed that keeping a small fire was the way to go, one wood split a time to keep even temperature.


No coal bed, just added some logs and fired it up with my propane burner.
No kiln dried wood, took some dry birch-wood some the pile from my father in law.

No need to add charcoal, just one log now and then.

Today it was no wind at all, and hot outside (27C).

Nice smoke, everything from clear to thin blue smoke.



I have the "updated" Kingman with air intake little bit lower than before.

I still has lots to learn and it will be a pleasure to make some Q on this one.

Intake damper was 1/3-1/2 open, no need to have it fully open!



I'm glad that I took the Kingman instead of the Wichita.


Will post more soon as I can...

Ole T-Roy Cooks finally gave up the Wichita. I've noticed for quite some time he rarely did cooking videos with it anymore.

He replaced it with one of the new Lone Star Grillz 20" models with the 3/16" flat sides (not pipe). His first impressions were very positive ("lovin it") and in comparison with the Yoder he said the LSG was much more efficient and controllable. He commented that the Yoder "would run out of control sometimes."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syq6O13jla8

Looking forward to more of his cooks to see if he continues to love it.

slamkeys said:

Ole T-Roy Cooks finally gave up the Wichita. I've noticed for quite some time he rarely did cooking videos with it anymore.

He replaced it with one of the new Lone Star Grillz 20" models with the 3/16" flat sides (not pipe). His first impressions were very positive ("lovin it") and in comparison with the Yoder he said the LSG was much more efficient and controllable. He commented that the Yoder "would run out of control sometimes."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syq6O13jla8

Looking forward to more of his cooks to see if he continues to love it.

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I noticed that. A lot of the youtube bbq guys (mothers, ballistic) also got Lone Star Grillz around the same time (was there a group buy or free promotion?)

I’m wondering the same thing. Seems like Lone Star is doing some smart marketing.

Of course it was a giveaway for free marketing. On another note we have a Kingman and have no issues at all maintaining an even temp across the pit from left to right or right to left whichever way you prefer to read the temps. Door is closed and no smoldering wood. Several other people I know have Kingman also and have no such issue with the door. I have made a few videos displaying this. Our Kingman has never "run out of control". We actually control it with no problems.