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Old 11-12-2009, 01:25 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post
It's an ancillary category. That's what the topic refers to. It doesn't count, who REALLY cares? It's not like they gave out the recipe or anything. As if judges don't go around and talk in depth, about the fabulous desserts that were at their table?

Jack Daniels, prime example. I don't know why they wouldn't let Ray take any pictures. They have bleachers set up for people to watch the judging of ALL categories. Don't you think there were some telephoto lenses hooked to some of those cameras?

Don't we have bigger fish to fry???
This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Merl View Post
This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!

Merl, if KCBS has rules on not taking photos and such. How is it that pictures were posted from KCBS contests in the Bullsheet?

I don't get that?
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:45 PM   #33
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Here is my perspective as an organizer:

I happen to have the privilege of working with some excellent Reps at the Battle of the BBQ Brethren. They have been VERY proactive about photos, only making limited exceptions for media or the events own promotional use.

As an organizer, I wouldn't have a problem overruling a Rep as long as my decision doesn't break the rules of the KCBS. So, while I wouldn't give carte blanche taking photos throughout the judging (as that would be against KCBS rules, as I understand them); I wouldn't have a problem saying NO photos are allowed (as the KCBS certainly has no ability to force an organizer to allow photos).

If teams expressed a concern to me (the cooks meeting would be a good time) about photos, it would definitely be something that I would address.

If this isn't something that the KCBS will assert control of, and it is a concern, ask the organizer to take action.

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Old 11-12-2009, 03:05 PM   #34
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I'm not all about the photo thing. Lots of folks know what my boxes look like, but i only broadcast photos of some of them; and I control it. Saying what someone turned in for an ancilary catagory, and showing pics of the main 4 catagory entries at entries are two different things.

Again, knowing I made cheesecake, or key lime pie, should not effect my advantage -- showing a pic of my turn-in, could. Interesting topic. I know several of the events I attended include a statement about all pictures/likenesses/ etc. being thier property for any promotion, etc they would like to do. So potentially - that organizer could put up a slideshow of entries (wouldnt have names or anything on them) that someone could see and go "oh, that is a nice box"... but I have only seen that happen a couple times. And unless you recognized that entry, you would not know who you were shiggin' or how it scored.

Interesting topic here...
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:09 PM   #35
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This allows a KCBS contest rep to be in charge. I guess the price of cooking classes may go down, just ask the rep about a specific cook's turn in's.
Merl, I'll come see you about 20 minutes after turn ins at Buckeye this weekend. I'll bring a pencil and something to write on. Any chance I could get you to wear a spy cam?
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:23 PM   #36
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Well now this is out in the open, who was it? What did they cook? I also agree it is no big deal they announced it. You still need to duplicate. If they followed a cookbook or recipe, it's probably not their dish anyway!
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merl View Post
This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!
What? I'm not gonna bite.....
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:26 PM   #38
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Well now this is out in the open, who was it? What did they cook? I also agree it is no big deal they announced it. You still need to duplicate. If they followed a cookbook or recipe, it's probably not their dish anyway!
It was my Schweaty Balls.
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:29 PM   #39
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I have that in my app but it is for media purposes only and I dont allow any judges to take photos nor do I think it is allowed in any contests. Sometimes a newspaper will take one but I also ask that they dont focus on the numbers.

Arlie
Really.....so its ok for an organizer to take photos, but not a judge.
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Old 11-12-2009, 03:32 PM   #40
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Hey I found the announcement and they even gave the recipe!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnNYXgV7L-c
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:35 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by OC PIG ASSASSINS View Post
Well now this is out in the open, who was it? What did they cook? I also agree it is no big deal they announced it. You still need to duplicate. If they followed a cookbook or recipe, it's probably not their dish anyway!
It is a very big deal if the cook thinks it is...

He's a great cook, a great friend, and has all the credentials...

Ancillary category or not, he makes his money cooking, and should not have his secrets broadcasted if he does does not want to....
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:47 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merl View Post
This is not as minimal as you make it, Steph. What brought it to the board was an ancillary, but that was not the issue presented to the Board. We have rules agains photographs, with certain limited exceptions for media. I just can't imagine, if I posted descriptions of the slabs.com boxes that you would not be all over me.

But now the Board said it is permissible in all categories!
I'm going to call you on this one for putting a spin on the facts. The Board did no such thing. The fact is that the decision was not to add yet another rule to the already burgeoning book Reps have to follow. There was no advisory issued "saying it is permissible" as you implied.

I for one would rather have KCBS Reps that have the flexibility to use common sense and make decisions on the fly rather than try to turn them into Rule Lawyers who spend their time looking up regulations in a thick book. Yes, there is the potential for bad calls to be made when every possible occurrence is not anticipated and controlled by written policy, but that's why we have the Board to provide oversight and clarification as needed. If there are bad Reps who repeatedly make mistakes, the solution is not to attempt to hedge them in with rules, but rather to put a mechanism in place to remove Reps.

We have many qualified folks who are waiting for new Rep positions to open, and a fair number of Reps who are not being invited back to contests (a sure sign of dissatisfaction from the organizer). Stagnation of the Rep pool is not a good thing, and we should look at finding ways to eliminate it IMO.
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Old 11-12-2009, 08:25 PM   #43
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I'm going to call you on this one for putting a spin on the facts. The Board did no such thing. The fact is that the decision was not to add yet another rule to the already burgeoning book Reps have to follow. There was no advisory issued "saying it is permissible" as you implied.

I for one would rather have KCBS Reps that have the flexibility to use common sense and make decisions on the fly rather than try to turn them into Rule Lawyers who spend their time looking up regulations in a thick book. Yes, there is the potential for bad calls to be made when every possible occurrence is not anticipated and controlled by written policy, but that's why we have the Board to provide oversight and clarification as needed. If there are bad Reps who repeatedly make mistakes, the solution is not to attempt to hedge them in with rules, but rather to put a mechanism in place to remove Reps.

We have many qualified folks who are waiting for new Rep positions to open, and a fair number of Reps who are not being invited back to contests (a sure sign of dissatisfaction from the organizer). Stagnation of the Rep pool is not a good thing, and we should look at finding ways to eliminate it IMO.

So if I read you right you would kick out bad reps. What if a rep has made many mistakes over this summer, do you feel they need to be eliminated or re trained?
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:35 PM   #44
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Hey Jeff S,

You have picked up more than a few votes based on this thread, congrats...

All my best--JH
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:50 PM   #45
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So if I read you right you would kick out bad reps. What if a rep has made many mistakes over this summer, do you feel they need to be eliminated or re trained?
Since I am not a Rep and don't know the inner workings of the job I'm not qualified to say. At first blush I would be inclined to think some sort of review committee would handle this. In my mind, it's not so much how the system would work, but rather that there IS a system to weed out the chaff. Right now a bad Rep is just recirculated to new contests each year, only to be thrown back again when the organizers of last year's contests don't ask them back. As long as they don't commit some gross error that causes enough furor to merit BoD attention they can continue to bump along under the radar indefinitely.

I guess it just seems crazy to me that there are some really great, qualified folks who would love to become Reps who are frozen out, yet I see contests from some regions reaching farther and farther away for Reps because they are dissatisfied with who is available in their area.
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