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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking. |
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11-04-2012, 10:55 AM | #1 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-24-12
Location: Linz, Austria
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23rd Q: This is NOT Pastrami! [w/ pr0n]
Lessons learned this time:
A rather small breast core of young Austrian bull with just 7.19 lbs It had a nice looking flat, but a really tiny point Rubbed in curing salt according to the instructions of the manufacturer and wrapped tightly in plastic foil for dry curing And here we are 12 days later It did NOT get that nice reddish throughout, the curing salt only penetrated the top layer and partly not at all, resulting in grayish spots Firing up minion style with some buried apple wood Beef on The tiny point was ready after 3 hours 11 minutes The point went into the cooler for resting, and on it went for the flat. Here is an overview of the cooking area. Flat ready after 6 hours 4 minutes Tiny point after resting Flat after resting Closeup of the sliced point Closeup of the sliced flat And on it went to getting steamed It can't be denied, that the flat is just looking beautiful So here we are after steaming for 30 minutes Steamed beef closeup Our Essence of Q Sauce And the resulting sandwich All in all it was a huge disappointment! Not Pastrami like at all, but a 12 days dry cured brisket, which does not come any close to the better briskets I have produced so far. Pastrami production will have to be revisited after some time passing by, but then I will use the curing salt at my own discretion.
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11-04-2012, 12:46 PM | #2 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 10-12-08
Location: Gallatin, TN
Name/Nickname : Richard
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What exactly was disappointing? Was it too tough? Too salty?
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11-04-2012, 12:59 PM | #3 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 02-02-08
Location: Westfield,Ma.
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I usually smoke to 170 then rest a day and then steam to 190. One thing I don't get did you steam it after you sliced it? Looks that way from the pics? Also what did you use for a rub? I only do S&P and coriander.
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11-04-2012, 01:20 PM | #4 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-24-12
Location: Linz, Austria
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With only steaming for 30 minutes it was too tough, and I didn't really like the flavor profile, coming from a typical pastrami rub recipe. Steaming for hours it was very nice and tender, but kind of bland, as if the flavor from the rub was washed away by the steam. It definitely was not too salty, especially after using way too little curing salt. All in all it was not really the typical brisket, and not anywhere near what you would expect from a pastrami.
Quote:
After dry curing I washed off the curing salt as good as possible, and then I applied the following mixture:
Oh, and I forgot to mention the preparation thread leading up to this cook.
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11-05-2012, 07:58 AM | #5 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 06-29-11
Location: Greeneville TN
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Of course everyone has their own best tastes. I seriously question the rub recipe you used. The amount of paprika and coriander in particular are WAY more than any recipe I have read. Also the use of curatives is not necessary for pastrami and will definitely change the flavor and texture of the finished product.
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11-05-2012, 08:03 AM | #6 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 04-24-09
Location: Utrecht,TheNetherPharkinglands
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Looks great!
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11-05-2012, 10:41 AM | #7 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-24-12
Location: Linz, Austria
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Quote:
It looked so good, and nevertheless was rather bad. My wife refuses to eat the remaining part of the flat, which I want to try to steam in one piece with temp control. Also I don't like the flavor profile I don't want the dog to have it all...
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11-05-2012, 03:08 PM | #8 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 07-21-05
Location: patchogue, n.y.
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i never did ythis so i don,t know for sue but i think you are supposed to brine a pastrami.
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11-06-2012, 02:08 AM | #9 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-24-12
Location: Linz, Austria
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You can definitely dry or wet cure it for sure, both ways are reported to lead to success, so dry curing instead of brining was not the problem here, but the amount of curing salt used according to the manufacturer's instructions, which was way too little.
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11-06-2012, 10:30 AM | #10 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 02-07-08
Location: Framingham, MA
Name/Nickname : George
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check out thirdeyes blog He has a great tutorial
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11-07-2012, 02:06 AM | #11 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-24-12
Location: Linz, Austria
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The remaining piece of that farked up pastrami is steaming right now:
Temp went up pretty fast, I was expecting it to be in the steamer for a few hours till lunch, but it's already at 199°F and we are about 3 hours away from lunch. Is it possible to over-steam? I wanted it to reach IT 203°F, but we are way ahead now. Since steam can not get any hotter than 212°F I guess it will do no harm if I just let it steam for another 3 hours without considering IT, right or wrong?
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11-07-2012, 05:50 AM | #12 | |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 03-28-12
Location: Broomfield, Essex, UK
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Quote:
https://foursquare.com/v/indian-mark...7682ed230729fe I use a lot of coriander seed making biltong and I can pick it up in 2kg bags at the Indian supermarkets in London. I also get other spices in much larger quantities than in british supermarkets (so cheaper as well) as well as things like garlic powder etc that are not normally stocked in European supermarkets. Check them out to see if they have cracked black pepper in a larger grade than you currently use. Use a mortar & pestle or spice grinder to crush the coriander for pastrami etc. - you can roast the seeds first yourself as well.
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11-07-2012, 09:43 AM | #13 |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-24-12
Location: Linz, Austria
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I usually buy spices at a local wholesale supermarket, they are stocked pretty well.
Well, the remaining piece of fake pastrami has been steamed till lunchtime. It reached an IT of 208°F and was super tender afterwards, I ate it in wraps with our Essence of Q sauce, my wife had it over salad. It was better this way, but I still didn't like its flavor profile. At least it's gone now, we ate it all for lunch.
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11-07-2012, 12:40 PM | #14 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 10-14-09
Location: Kalispell, Montana
Name/Nickname : Head KnucklHed
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A couple of suggestions -
If you're using pink salt (prague #1, insta cure #1 etc) 1 level tsp per 5 lbs of meat should be plenty of cure for dry curing a flat. You do need salt (sugar helps too) to carry the nitrite into the meat, if you didn't have much salt that could be your problem. As for smoking/getting it tender, Smoke it for color more than smoking it for temp. With that said, I generally smoke mine at cooler temps (180 - 225F) until the color is where I want it, It will prolly be on the rare side. Then foil it and steam it in the foil for several hours (like 4+) or use a pressure cooker at 15 PSI for about 45-60 min (still foiled). I've never tried it, but I imagine you could also use a large covered turkey roaster with water in the bottom (use a rack inside to keep the foiled meat off the bottom of the pan) and cook it in the oven if your steamer isn't large enough to hold a whole flat... If you cook it for longer in the smoker (higher IT) it seems to me that the final product is a bit dryer Allow the meat to cool in the foil before opening or cutting, this will retain the moisture and collagen in the meat and foil so that it will hold together once cool and still be moist. Another thing to try is buying a corned beef brisket and experimenting with that, once you have that down, then go back to curing your own. If you buy a corned brisket, I prefer getting the leanest point you can, way better flavor than a flat!
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11-07-2012, 12:46 PM | #15 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 06-26-09
Location: sAn leAnDRo, CA
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When I have done a pastrami with dry cure, which is normally my preference, I use a lot more cure than you did. I prefer a heavy coating, no meat visible. I do NOT add more cure, just more salt and spices. I follow the instructions, I use Morton's Tenderquik and it has not failed me. I do press the meat if it is more than 2 inches thick.
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