Is this unfair and unequal to you??

[big matt]

This past weekend here in California there was a contest in Morgan Hill,Ca that was sanctioned by the PNWBA.the day after there was more than one judge that mentioned inconsistencies with the judging..here's the kicker there were boxes that sat on the turnin table for 30-35 minutes before being sampled these were hour turnins but that is no excuse for anybody's food to sit that long plus they were short on judges too so they"just made due"with what they had there..so basically if you were one of the first teams to turnin you got judged fairly but if you were one of the last your food sat for a very long time..we didn't cook this event we were in Long Beach..but I do feel bad for those that did cook this event and didn't get a fair shot..what do you guys think?

[bbq.tom]

I'm not familiar with PNWBA judging, but it sounds to me like the contest organizer and reps didn't do justice to the cooks at this event. Why didn't they just double up on the samples being judged?

[big matt]

From what was said and posted was some tables judged 7-8 samples..my main issue is they do the boxes one by one plus comment cards for everything which is very time consuming..so it leaves box 6 sitting a long time..and from a cooks view this is plain crazy to me..how the hell is the food you turned in even remotely close to being how you presented it..when all the food is cold that's one thing but when the first sample is hot and the last one is not that's a problem..there were also judges that said they got hot food all around and others didn't.

[paydabill]

My opinion - that would suck - however, since I have never organized an event - the reason TOO MUCH WORK, it is hard for me to complain. I really think they probably did the best they could do.

I have been to events where they did not have enough judges, and they walked around the parking lot asking people to judge. That made me mad, but giving the two situations, do you want them to pull people off the street or let it sit. That is a hard call.

Does the PNWBA (who I have never cooked in) have a system for fair and hoenest feedback? If they do, then the cooks who might be upset needs to let that orgnaization know.

[landarc]

Up front that seems unfair, but, I have heard that at other contests (KCBS, IBCA and others), similar things can happen. My understanding is that the food often gets judged under less than optimal conditions.

Obviously, there are PNWBA members on this board who can address this more clearly.

[JD McGee]

I have forwarded this conversation to the PNWBA BOD of which I am a member...I can assure you it will be looked in to and all the facts gathered up in one neat little bundle before responding to any questions, assumptions, or accusations...stay tuned...
JD

[big matt]

Originally Posted by JD McGee

I have forwarded this conversation to the PNWBA BOD of which I am a member...I can assure you it will be looked in to and all the facts gathered up in one neat little bundle before responding to any questions, assumptions, or accusations...stay tuned...
JD

Thanks JD!..why I brought it up on this forum is because I have a high level of respect of all members here and value your opinions..the glaring issue here to me is that some boxes sat a very long time while others didn't..some got hot food others didn't..I don't know if this is how it normally works(you would know better than me)but I can't possibly fathom how it could be fair if that's the way it does happen normally..even with the hour turnin it's unacceptable IMO to let someones hard work,money,passion and love just sit idle for that long..even if the boxes were closed there is no way the last box is even close to being what that cook turned in..thanks again John for looking into this deeper.

[swamprb]

I've been following the thread on the CBBQA forum and (which has since been locked down) otherwise I would jumped in since I am also a paid CBBQA member and have the same right as you to stir the pot since NEITHER of us cooked or judged the event.

Christene James the HJ at the event responded to the thread, and explained the situation. Its not common practice and there was a shortage of judges, what more do you want?

I took the liberty of posting a thread on the PNWBA Judging Forum just to get a response from our membership. Check it out.

So, yeah, there are California cooks that think that PNWBA is encroaching on KCBS territory, just as some of us Mossbacks think that KCBS is actively poaching established events in our little playground. But guess what? PNWBA isn't the only game in town for us and there should be no surprise that some NorCal organizers and cooks feel the same way about KCBS. Get over it.

I recently flew to Santa Clara to attend the Rhythm 'n Que BBQ Class, and afterwards hung out at the Masonic Lodge where there was a charity cook and spoke to a lot of folks and quite a few are Brethren and locals as well and there seemed to be the same attitude as we have it here in the Northwest-its all BBQ!! And hey, we need judges or it ain't no ball game KCBS/IBCA or PNWBA-people want to cook. So there will be faux pas in Judging, but it seems like you and a few others are just taking it to another forum to beat your dead horse.

I'm also a PNWBA BOD member and KCBS/PNWBA CBJ

Rant over!

[big matt]

Brian I respect you just as much as the next guy..but calling me a Califarker is straight outta line..you can keep your insults to yourself!..as far as stirring pot that's a bunch of crap too..people that worked hard,spent hard earned money,cooked their butt off only to get screwed in the tent..so if you wanna defend that there weren't inconsistencies in the judging your crazy..judges spoke up about it!..all I'm saying is there should be some kind of explanation as to why those boxes sat so long..you should come down to California and see how your cooking can hold up against us"Califarkers"..talk is cheap buddy I know I can back it up with my cooking how about you?

[swamprb]

Originally Posted by big matt

Brian I respect you just as much as the next guy..but calling me a Califarker is straight outta line..you can keep your insults to yourself!..as far as stirring pot that's a bunch of crap too..people that worked hard,spent hard earned money,cooked their butt off only to get screwed in the tent..so if you wanna defend that there weren't inconsistencies in the judging your crazy..judges spoke up about it!..all I'm saying is there should be some kind of explanation as to why those boxes sat so long..you should come down to California and see how your cooking can hold up against us"Califarkers"..talk is cheap buddy I know I can back it up with my cooking how about you?

I was using farker as a term of endearment. Sorry you got you panties in a bunch.

Apparently you haven't read the entire thread that you are ranting over on the CBBQA site. As I pointed out in my post the HJ gave an explanation and if you can't except it, then fine. There is a fairly good reason the CBBQA Mod locked down the thread as it couldn't get dragged down any farther. So now it gets moved to the national front.

Why not provide the Brethren with the link on the CBBQA Judges Only forum so, we can all analyze and dissect it??

Looking forward to someday soon cooking against Left Coast Q!

[JD McGee]

Explanation is here...from Christine James (aka "deena" on the BBQ Brethren Forum) on the CBBQA forum...

Hi all,

The only reason boxes sat longer at this event is because we had 36 judges instead of 42 like we normally would have but we dealt with the number of judges we had access to. Our standard is 6 entries per table with a MAX as being 8 but we try to avoid that at all costs. At our events we usually have as close to the number of judges as teams as possible plus separate people who do the table captaining. We rarely have table captains do double duty. These judges were also not all used to doing comments so it took some of them longer than others.

We do have a judging program for our judges to show their ranking.

Someone mentioned tongs, we wipe the tongs down between meats to keep them clean. Personally I would rather use tongs than have someone else touch my food.

Judging boxes one at a time removes the issue of comparing entries. You can’t compare entries if they are not sitting next to each other on a sheet of paper.

I appreciate everyone’s opinion. We are a different group, with different rules. Thank you for your comments.

And here in her e-mail to me and the PNWBA BOD...

The facts. I'm not sure how the board wants to handle this. All I can do is give the facts of what happened at the event.

We had 36 CBJ's not the 42 we would have preferred to have considering we had 43 teams at the event. But we felt is was more important to work with CBJ's than add 6 more people that had never judged.
So judging took maybe an extra 5 minutes to judge 7 and then one table had to judge 8 (the one that was judged half past the hour so the longest it could have sat was 25 minutes) As we judge on a first in method. With every meat as the judges got used to the system it went faster. This is pretty normal. I talked to many KCBS judges that have said they get cold meat on a regular basis and that the meat at our event was hot. If it wasn't that means it probably was not turned in hot.

So...I am not seeing any issues here at all (so far) Christine followed our SOP to the letter. Granted...most of the judges were KCBS and our processes and procedures are different (we are not KCBS)...so there was a bit of a learning curve for them I'm sure.

Would we do anything different next year...probably not...other than hoping for enough judges to fill out the tables. I think Christine and the judging crew did an admirable job keeping the event alive and not having to be canceled due to lack of judges.

[JD McGee]

Sorry for the bold letters up there...^^^...I was trying to separate my comments from Christine's...I wasn't shouting...

[Big Poppa]

The nor cal cbbqa wanting to move towards Pnwba is dividing the state further...We are one of many teams who arent going North this year. We are a KCBS team.

JD Expansion is great for you guys but making sure that your infrastructure can handle it helps avoid these issues. Stuff happens all the time but first impressions are critical to the success of your expansion.

[swamprb]

Unbelievable!

[big matt]

Originally Posted by swamprb

I was using farker as a term of endearment. Sorry you got you panties in a bunch.

Apparently you haven't read the entire thread that you are ranting over on the CBBQA site. As I pointed out in my post the HJ gave an explanation and if you can't except it, then fine. There is a fairly good reason the CBBQA Mod locked down the thread as it couldn't get dragged down any farther. So now it gets moved to the national front.

Why not provide the Brethren with the link on the CBBQA Judges Only forum so, we can all analyze and dissect it??

Looking forward to someday soon cooking against Left Coast Q!

We'd love to have you come down and cook!..as far as being endearing your tone was just the opposite..also I'm too dam big for panties I'd blow them out before I got them half way on..JD gave a good explanation as to what happened but bottom line there were some issues with this contest and you can't argue that it's just what happened.can't change the past..like you mentioned it's "all BBQ" but its COMPETITION BBQ and that's why it's so serious to me..How would you feel if you box was the one that sat there getting cold for a half hour?.would you say "oh well that's how it works".?