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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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01-29-2010, 03:43 PM | #1 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-06-09
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
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BBQ Judging - Newsletter from Bill Anderson of Chatham Artillery BBQ Team
I think this might stir the pot...
Here's the link to the newsletter... http://www.bbqsuccess.com/barbecue-judging/ I also pasted the newsletter below because it displays improperly in Mozilla 3.6, (but it does display properly in Internet Explorer). Dear BBQ Friend: What better way to start out the new year than complaining about all the things that need improvement in our little barbecue industry... I've been meaning to write a newsletter about this for a couple of years now. The last newsletter I did on barbecue judging was way back in December 2006 - and it hasn't changed much in the last 3 years! In that Dec 2006 newsletter, I basically explained how things work so you would know what to expect at a contest. This newsletter is a bit different... I am going to offer some suggestions for improvement. Note: There are good barbecue judges out there and a few not so good ones. This newsletter is not intended to offend anyone. Nor is it intended to take anything away from barbecue contest winners. We are all in the same judging boat and all wins are well deserved. I can assure you, not many people besides barbecue competitors know how much work is involved in competing in a barbecue contest. Even some seasoned barbecue judges do not have a clue. Even some Master Certified Barbecue Judges don't have a clue... all they are required to do is help a team at a contest. Note I said "at a contest". Well, what about the 2 days of preparing for a contest? And what about the 2 days of cleanup after a contest? And what about the many, many hours of practice? Just helping a team at a contest does help a judge understand what goes into a contest, but it is still only the tip of the iceberg. If a judge really wants to become a master and understand fully what is involved, let them go out and buy all of their own equipment, spend years learning how to cook competition quality barbecue, pay the entry fee, buy the meat and other supplies, spend 2 days preparing for a contest, driving many miles to get there, working your ass off at a contest, and then driving home and cleaning up. And... why do we do this again? Oh... that's right - for the fun of it! Maybe we would get better scores if all judges were required to go through all that! But I understand that that's not possible. So... how can we go about improving barbecue judging? I think we can all agree that the current judging is not exactly fair and after spending around $700+ for a contest, I think we deserve fair judging. A lot of my scores ranged from 9's and 8's to 6's and 7's at some tables last year. So... my first question is - "Is it even possible to improve barbecue judging?" After all, everybody has their own tastes even though they are taught to ignore their personal tastes. But is that even possible? Probably not. Then there is the question of certified Barbecue Judges (CBJ). I personally think we are slightly better off with CBJs, but I say only slightly because they are not always fair either. Some of them have tasted the best and hold everybody else up to a higher standard - thus low scores for everyone. Don't know if this is right or wrong to be honest with you. And using people off the street could result in a lot of low scores or too high scores - who knows!? I think my point is... we need a better system to overcome these innate "discrepancies". So, here are my suggestions...
While I'm on my soapbox... let's see some increases in prize money! I am sick and tired of seeing these contests which only have $4000-$5000 total prize money! That is a joke! First place would not even cover my expenses. I won 4 Grand Championships in 2009 and over $10,000 in prize money and I barely covered my expenses for the 10 contests I entered last year. There's a whole lot of room for improvement if you ask me. Like I said... somebody's gonna come along real soon and "find the need and fill it" . I watched 4 contestants on TV do some kind of chocolate sculpture contest. The winner got a check for $10,000. I about fell out of my Lazy Boy! I work my ass off for the better part of a week and can only dream about winning $10,000 at one contest. Those TV networks film a barbecue contest and don't put up a dime in prize money. Are we a bunch of suckers? Try to film a NASCAR event or a NBA game without paying big bucks - good luck with that! Again... our sanctioning bodies are not doing their job right. Who's the next BBQ Bill France Sr? This industry is ripe. It's in it's infancy. Find a need and... I better shut up now, Bill Anderson Chatham Artillery BBQ Team
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Jeffro - Lang 60 Patio - Orange Splash-Proof Thermapen - Maverick ET-732 - 2 Weber Kettles Last edited by Bogus Chezz Hawg; 01-29-2010 at 06:16 PM.. |
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01-29-2010, 04:27 PM | #2 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 12-18-07
Location: Western burbs of Chicago, IL
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I got that email too. Don't see his idea happening any time soon
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2 Skinny Cooks Competition Team [URL]http://2SkinnyCooks.blogspot.com[/URL] KCBS CJ/TC #17139 Member ILBBQS Too many cookers to list :crazy: |
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01-29-2010, 04:44 PM | #3 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 05-03-07
Location: New Baltimore, Mi.
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I like it.
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Owner of Bubba's BBQ & Catering L.L.C. Beer Snob I cook the #bestbrisketnorthoftexas. Get over it. #detroitporkmafia BBQ Person of the Year 2013 |
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01-29-2010, 06:04 PM | #4 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 10-16-08
Location: Virginia
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I did a local contest this year where we were required to give out samples to the spectators. It made things 10 times more crazy than a normal contest. I won't do it again.
I have also looked into starting a contest and found how much expense is involved with sanctioning, orgaizing, insurance and more before you every get around to prize money. While I would like to see more money also, for the majority of contests across the nation it ain't gonna happen. I think if popularity gets big and there are 15-20 contests per year paying say $100,000 then once they get all of the teams they can handle and there are still teams trying to get in, that is when you will see entry fees go through the roof. Your team will need a major sponsor and the entry fee say $2000-$5000, you'll have a circuit of the TLC Pitmaster guy's and gal touring the nation like NASCAR
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Ole Hickory EL-EW, FEC 120, Lang 84, Custom Off Set |
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01-29-2010, 06:28 PM | #5 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 07-20-08
Location: Clive, IA
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So what are the odds of getting a friends box at a judging table? Not great unless it is a small contest and if their box is so unique would it not be marking?
A 10 minute window of turn in seems fair especially when you have Friday to start. Now I do see issues when judges give a 2 or 3 and the rest is all 8 or 9, but things happen like a dried piece of meat. Would be nice for comment cards then.
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FEC-100 Right Handed, FEC-100 Left Handed, Large BGE x2, Mini BGE Buster Dog BBQ - [url]http://www.busterdogbbq.com[/url] |
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01-29-2010, 06:34 PM | #6 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
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Jesus. I think Bill needs a cookie.
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. Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong. Don't overthink or undercook. [url=http://www.rhythmnque.com]Rhythm 'n QUE[/url] |
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01-29-2010, 07:39 PM | #7 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 06-05-08
Location: Council Bluffs, Iowa
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He said. Don't use any judges - Say what, Bill? Have you lost your mind!? Nope... there's plenty of very well qualified people around barbecue contests to do the judging. Who? I'm talking about the contestants themselves! Who else is more qualified? Here's how you would go about it...((I have news for him, not all contestants cooking, cook good food, so how can they judge properly). Sounds like he got a bad score, must not of been 100% kcbs judge certified
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01-30-2010, 07:33 AM | #8 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 06-21-06
Location: Lawrence, Kansas - The Great American Outback
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"We all know that in the current system, turn-in boxes can easily sit around for an hour before being judged."
This comment tells me that this person's perspective is severely skewed from reality. From what I've seen, it's rarely two minutes from the time the sample box hits the turn in table until the table captain delivers it to the table. Also - sure! It would be great to have more prize money to go for, if you have a shot at winning. There are competitors like me who do it for the fun. Sure, it's kind of a masochistic kind of fun . . . but I really enjoy the challenge! I also realize that these contests are most often conducted as a benefit to raise money for charities. Hospitals, March of Dimes, animal shelters, the Sertomas raising money for the hearing impaired, Shriners causes . . . I've seen all kinds of deserving non-profit programs benefit from KCBS contests. So, when I shell out the $700 or so - and I think that's a fair estimation - I consider it all a DONATION to whatever the chosen cause is and go about my business knowing that my participation in my chosen hobby is having a larger effect on the world than simply an opportunity to win prize money. Anyone competing strictly to win prize money is wacky anyway, from a strictly business accounting point of view . . . so give up the struggle, relax and have fun. Isn't that what it's all supposed to be about anyway?
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We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it. - Abraham Lincoln ------- One Moocow UDS! (Thanks, Shane!) http://www.moocowbbq.com/ Two Weber 22.5" kettles One Brinkmann Smoke'N PitMaster Deluxe One LARGE WSM! (special black glossy finish) w/Stoker! WooHoo! KCBS Member/KCBS Master CBJ #24295 Sweaty, smokey and enjoying every minute. |
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01-30-2010, 09:13 AM | #9 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 04-21-06
Location: Lake Ponderosa-Montezuma, IA
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wow! All I can say is wow!!
ModelMaker
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Designer of a custom drum smoker Customized Aussie gas passer Turkey fryer Extremely seasoned hand hammered Wok Pit Boss-HART BURN Competition BBQ Team KCBS certified judge And Your not the boss of me either!! |
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01-30-2010, 09:49 AM | #10 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 06-10-09
Location: Newnan, GA
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If Bill feels that strongly he should start his own Sanctioned BBQ Association.
Like every other BBQ competitor, I simply do my best and hope for the rest.
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Big Jim - Newnan, GA Customized Lang Model 84 Longneck |
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01-30-2010, 11:48 AM | #11 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 10-23-07
Location: Norwalk,Iowa
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Although...is he correct in that the producing of "pitmasters" there was no money given to kcbs to allow the filming being done. I DO think that they (producing co) should have,if they indeed didn't, give some money to the contest to help up the ante in the winnings department.
After all, it can be constued as an inconvenience when the camera guy is standing up in front of you at the awards ceremony so he can get the money shot from the guy they've been following all weekend...I'm just sayin'... |
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01-30-2010, 12:10 PM | #12 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-18-06
Location: Hurricane Deck Missouri
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Instead of having 8 judges, why not just use the now required 6 and through out the lowest and highest score with the remaining 4 scores you could use the highest 3 for scores and the 4th for the tie breaker if needed.
I don't agree with an hour wait for judges to get boxes but I have not done a huge contest like the AR so not sure about that. I have seen the need for the rep to go out and get extra judges from the teams and don't think it has caused any problems. But with most teams the extra members are needed up to the last turn in so that could get a little tight time wise. I am all for no garnish as long as everyone is doing the samething. Dave
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Let us have a drink and by God lets us not think about the things we ain't never going to know about. |
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01-30-2010, 04:14 PM | #13 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 02-13-05
Location: New Jersey
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How can one figure an hour wait to get to the tables when there is only 30 minutes between categories. Realize that there would be tables judging chicken and tables judging pork at the same time. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, no matter how big the contest.
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01-30-2010, 04:19 PM | #14 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 12-14-05
Location: New England
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That made my brain hurt
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01-30-2010, 04:35 PM | #15 |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 05-31-07
Location: Shippensburg PA
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