KCBS Next Steps/Goals/Focus ?!?!?!?

3. We turn in the stuff we do because that's what scores. It's that simple. Competition BBQ isn't about what we want to cook and eat at home and it never has been. It's 2 different things. Cooking at home is backyard bbq. The "get the judges' attention with one bite" philosophy exists because judges only take one bite. What do you propose to change this? Last contest I had a judge talk to me after judging asking why teams are trying so hard to make their brisket taste so "beefy". My response was 3 words. Because. It. Wins.


Couldn't agree with this more. We struggled a lot this year, aiming for what we thought was middle of the road flavor. Turns out if we want more than a bite or two of our meat when trying it, it's probably not salty enough for comp bbq. You have to amp up the flavor and pack a punch for a small bite. It's one bite bbq...
 
Donate the uneaten food to a local food bank.

I would love to be able to do this or do the "taste of BBQ" like has been done at the Oroville, CA event.

At Oroville the teams bring their uneaten food to a central location to be sold as samples similar to how team PC. The teams just need to slice the extra ribs, pull the extra pork and slice the extra brisket and bring it over in disposable pans ready to serve. They have a team of volunteers from the local area that sell the samples, at this event the money goes to local schools. This removes the biggest hassle PCing, needing to have a team of people to prepare and sell the samples.

Now the downside, at most events the health department would shut both of these down before it could get started. The teams would have to get a full, health department permitted setup (prep meat in a commercial kitchen, screened in cooking area, etc.).
 
In actuality those contests probably gave the top teams an advantage, and most of them probably knew it. Give a top 10 team a skinny $ muscle and they'll find something good to turn in and/or won't even worry about it. Give that same butt to an average team and they may bomb the category before the meat ever hits the pit. I suspect the biggest issue was finding sponsors to donate meat, the added cost to buy meat if it wasn't donated, and the volunteer time required to sort the meat to level the playing field.

It's optional. I wouldn't recommend it but I know a few braver souls that have tried it and done OK. I know others that tried it once and got burned. Say it takes an hour, and costs $15-20 for greens... In comparison to the other expenses and the required time for everything else ata contest is it really a burden?

You know why cooks tend to turn that in? It wins.

I disagree that the top cooks are at an advantage if they are forced to cook the same quality meat as everyone else. It makes no sense to say otherwise.

Garnish is optional, yes. But judges have come to expect it. My KCBS CBJ class instructor spent 30 minutes on the types of garnish that are allowed. And it may cost only $20 per contest, but that's 20 wasted dollars, not to mention the wasted time shopping for it and using it. You know what would solve this garnish problem once and for all, guaranteed? If KCBS were to simply disallow garnish, as the SCA has. Pretty damn simple solution.

I would think cooks with at least some measure of self-respect would lament the fact that over-salted, over-spiced meat with loads of MSG has come to be the winning ticket. Malcom Reed at least once had the dignity to say that he was ashamed of the amount of salt he had to use to win an SCA contest.
 
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I disagree that the top cooks are at an advantage if they are forced to cook the same quality meat as everyone else. It makes no sense to say otherwise.

Garnish is optional, yes. But judges have come to expect it. My KCBS CBJ class instructor spent 30 minutes on the types of garnish that are allowed. And it may cost only $20 per contest, but that's 20 wasted dollars, not to mention the wasted time shopping for it and using it. You know what would solve this garnish problem once and for all, guaranteed? If KCBS were to simply disallow garnish, as the SCA has. Pretty damn simple solution.

I would think cooks with at least some measure of self-respect would lament the fact that over-salted, over-spiced meat with loads of MSG has come to be the winning ticket. Malcom Reed at least once had the dignity to say that he was ashamed of the amount of salt he had to use to win an SCA contest.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Cook a half dozen contests and let us know what you think then. Best of luck.
 
I disagree that the top cooks are at an advantage if they are forced to cook the same quality meat as everyone else. It makes no sense to say otherwise.

It makes perfect sense if the bunch of whiners you’re talking about are better cooks than you are. (I don’t want to ruin the ending, but they’re much better cooks than you are)
 
Just a thought for growing the sport/community, why not partner up with the national bbq league and televise it!?!? They got good personalities. Run it like a new bbq pit master series. A lot of people have no idea that this is an actual sport. And there are tons of people who are competitive. Just my 2 cents.

Good thinking. It takes a LOT to pull off a good show with proper storylines etc. Maybe they could even lend the "brand" and connect a major sponsor to make this happen.
 
I can tell you from a wannabe competitor's point of view exactly what is discouraging new team formation. These things greatly discourage me:

1. The un-level playing field when it comes to meat. Hell, I can't afford Wagyu briskets or Snake River Farms pork butts/ribs. The "Guinea Pig" contests seemed like a great idea, where all teams were on the same level playing field in terms of meat quality. But those contests seem to have gone by the way side, probably because top teams cried about not being able to use higher quality meat than most other teams could afford.

2. Stupid garnish. KCBS says it's "all about the meat", but it's really not. It's a lot about the garnish. Allowing people to pretty-up their boxes with garnish adds an unnecessary burden on cooks.

3. The way KCBS contests have gravitated toward producing BBQ that almost no one would want to cook/eat at home. I'm a (former) KCBS judge who simply got tired of eating over-salted, over-spiced, overly sweet, MSG-filled meat that would overpower most people's palate before they got done eating a meal. The "get the judges' attention with one bite" philosophy is a canker sore on the face of KCBS.

I'd really love to compete, but the above three things give me great hesitation.

These are all good points and I'm sure sum up the feelings of more than just you when it comes to comps.

I understand the debate about meat and not sure what the solution is. If the top meat providers signed on as a sponsor and the meat was included in the comp fee, would that "fix" things? A lot of the "top" teams don't even pay for the meat...correct?!?!?

As far as garnish, I'm not sure how I feel. With BBQ there is a lot of "down" time...so...I feel it gives one something to do.

Lastly, if it scores good, cooks will repeat it. It kinda just is what it is. KCBS trains towards a "1 bite" process. If the judges training was adjusted do you think you would see a change in outcomes and processes? If judges were told "If the brisket tastes too much like 'roast beef' don't give it more than a 7." Not sure what the answer is.
 
It's not going to fix things, it's just going to make entry fees go through the roof.


If you want to kill competition BBQ, just mandate master series contests be meat provided by the organizer and you'll lose a massive amount of cooks AND events overnight. Most cooks don't want it and most organizers don't want to deal with that.
 
... KCBS trains towards a "1 bite" process. If the judges training was adjusted do you think you would see a change in outcomes and processes?
Nope... Just fuller judges... ;)

(24 "1 bite" samples are enough for me. Although, have been known to take a second bite or third to fine tune the score.)



... If judges were told "If the brisket tastes too much like 'roast beef' don't give it more than a 7." ...
And if it tastes too much like pot roast ? ;)
 
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Lastly, if it scores good, cooks will repeat it. It kinda just is what it is. KCBS trains towards a "1 bite" process. If the judges training was adjusted do you think you would see a change in outcomes and processes? If judges were told "If the brisket tastes too much like 'roast beef' don't give it more than a 7." Not sure what the answer is.

KCBS does not train towards a 1 bite process. The effects of having 24 (or more with ancillaries) means that more than 1 bite can be a chore. 1 ounce bites (which are tiny) is a pound and a half of meat during judging. You would have to cook a 32 oz steak to get the same amount of meat that you're going to eat when judging (roughly). It's one bite out of necessity.

Further, I don't think it would change anything. Judges will still prefer salty and sweet, because they're humans and on a large scale that's what humans like.

It's like chocolate cake. Make it super rich if you know people are eating a small amount. You don't want to eat the whole piece of that though. "Eating cake" can be rich, but not over the top...Same goes for BBQ.
 
I think the KCBS should focus on the "experience".

Forget about whether you came in DAL in any category, how was your overall experience?

Would bring in a lot more millennials.

Sure, I spent over $1,000 per contest and faced a ton of hurdles and scoring problems and politics and such, but the experience was great!

Make them feel good and they'll keep coming back!

Did you pull the trailer in with minimal effort? Give'm a trophy. Were you quiet by 11p so as not to bother other teams? Give'm a trophy. Turned in your boxes on time? Another trophy.

Focus on feelings, we need more of that in all facets of life, even BBQ!


Good points. Some of the contests are pretty "boring" as far as other stuff going on. Others do a GREAT job. What if each one felt like a mini "State Fair"?????
 
I understand the debate about meat and not sure what the solution is. If the top meat providers signed on as a sponsor and the meat was included in the comp fee, would that "fix" things?


It would for me.



We did a charity cook a few weeks ago (with certified KCBS judges). All of the meat used was donated by the event sponsor and no other meat was allowed on site. We all had to use the same previously frozen ribs with crazy curved bones. Some of the really competitive guys were complaining about the ribs calling them "trash."



Once I realized we were all on equal footing with the meat, the only thing left was just to follow our process and cook them.



We took 2nd in ribs out of 25 teams.
 
Donate the uneaten food to a local food bank.


I LOVE this idea and wish there was an easy "across the board" solution to it. I would think that at times the hurdles are put in place by health departments that need to protect the public from poorly prepared food. It seems unlikely that they would allow each cook to donate food without being "inspected" at every contest.

Now if the chopped meat was donated to a charity that has an approved kitchen and could re-heat it to safe temps, that might work. How great would it be to see KCBS take the lead on teaming up with a national charity that could take over the nuts and bolts end of this solution?
 
I disagree that the top cooks are at an advantage if they are forced to cook the same quality meat as everyone else. It makes no sense to say otherwise.

Garnish is optional, yes. But judges have come to expect it. My KCBS CBJ class instructor spent 30 minutes on the types of garnish that are allowed. And it may cost only $20 per contest, but that's 20 wasted dollars, not to mention the wasted time shopping for it and using it. You know what would solve this garnish problem once and for all, guaranteed? If KCBS were to simply disallow garnish, as the SCA has. Pretty damn simple solution.

I would think cooks with at least some measure of self-respect would lament the fact that over-salted, over-spiced meat with loads of MSG has come to be the winning ticket. Malcom Reed at least once had the dignity to say that he was ashamed of the amount of salt he had to use to win an SCA contest.


Here is a WILD and CRAZY IDEA....What if KCBS created and sold...yes sold...custom turn in boxes for each meat??? It would level playing field AND generate income for the KCBS. What would it look like? How would it be constructed? I'm not sure...but it's an idea.
 
It's not going to fix things, it's just going to make entry fees go through the roof.


If you want to kill competition BBQ, just mandate master series contests be meat provided by the organizer and you'll lose a massive amount of cooks AND events overnight. Most cooks don't want it and most organizers don't want to deal with that.

Probably. One way to know is to try it out and let the system react to it. What about this idea....organizers could connect with a local meat provider and give contestants access to meat when they arrive at such a deep discount that it only makes "sense" to buy it there? Sure, others will still pay hundreds of dollars for Wagyu etc...but..others can compete at a discount rate.

Or, another CRAZY idea...what if got bonus points for using a lesser grade of beef? I know...probably impossible to implement. Just brainstorming.
 
Probably. One way to know is to try it out and let the system react to it. What about this idea....organizers could connect with a local meat provider and give contestants access to meat when they arrive at such a deep discount that it only makes "sense" to buy it there? Sure, others will still pay hundreds of dollars for Wagyu etc...but..others can compete at a discount rate.

Or, another CRAZY idea...what if got bonus points for using a lesser grade of beef? I know...probably impossible to implement. Just brainstorming.

If sponsors are providing meat at a discount, the prize pools will be smaller, as there won't be as much cash to put back into the event.
 
It would for me.



We did a charity cook a few weeks ago (with certified KCBS judges). All of the meat used was donated by the event sponsor and no other meat was allowed on site. We all had to use the same previously frozen ribs with crazy curved bones. Some of the really competitive guys were complaining about the ribs calling them "trash."



Once I realized we were all on equal footing with the meat, the only thing left was just to follow our process and cook them.



We took 2nd in ribs out of 25 teams.

Imagine this...Smithfield sponsors a nationwide contest with 1 event in each state. Only KCBS members can enter. Meat is provided and it feels like a "travelling carnival" that just gets everybody excited about BBQ. The same setup rolls into town each time. One setup cost, multiple events. Meat is provided and the "King of Ribs" is crowned in each state. Now if only KCBS had someone that worked for them that had an in at Smithfield????

Maybe part of the solution is that KCBS put focus on something other than the Master Series as a way improve involvement that leads up to a full four-meat contest????
 
^^This^^ When you boil it down it's why SCA is popular. It's not difficult to get $100 of "fun value" at an SCA event. $1000 wort of "fun value" is a higher bar.


^^^ This in a nutshell. $100 bucks, meat is picked on site, and you can have a fun afternoon cooking. You even get a free steak lunch too! :grin:
 
If sponsors are providing meat at a discount, the prize pools will be smaller, as there won't be as much cash to put back into the event.

Are prize pools solely dependent on team entry fees...or...could the be supplemented by sponsors, suppliers etc?

A national sponsor could spend 100k and immediately add 1/2k to 1 contest in each state. That's probably 1/5th of what Treager spent to have their pellet smoker in a spot where you had to trip over it when you walked into Home Depot this summer....or what they paid Costco to do "special events". Any sponsor would then have exclusive rights to have a tent at all events and give the public an experience to have...and a place to sell their stuff.
 
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