KCBS Involvement

[ewatts2003]

Originally Posted by gettinbasted

Let’s say Tim & I form a team. He cooks some I cook some, but our points both count towards the team as long as the comps aren’t on the same day. This would be a very unfair situation. We could do doubles on opposite ends of the planet and we’d never miss a weekend cooking, but we each could have plenty of time off.

On second thought, maybe they should change the rule.

That makes sense and I guess I didn’t really think of it from that aspect. Thanks for the explanation for this newbie!!

[egorham]

Originally Posted by gettinbasted

Let’s say Tim & I form a team. He cooks some I cook some, but our points both count towards the team as long as the comps aren’t on the same day. This would be a very unfair situation. We could do doubles on opposite ends of the planet and we’d never miss a weekend cooking, but we each could have plenty of time off.

On second thought, maybe they should change the rule.

Where in the rules does it say a head cook (or chief cook in the 2019 rules) has to be in attendance? I noticed that rules committee opined on this but I don't see anywhere in the rules that a head cook needs to be at the contest. Is this something in an advisory?


I don't disagree with a rule requiring the head cook be in attendance, for the reason stated above, but it seems odd to require it without it being stated in the rules.

[ewatts2003]

Originally Posted by egorham

Where in the rules does it say a head cook (or chief cook in the 2019 rules) has to be in attendance? I noticed that rules committee opined on this but I don't see anywhere in the rules that a head cook needs to be at the contest. Is this something in an advisory?

I went back over the rules sheet after reading your response and this is all I could find:

“Each team shall consist of a chief cook and as many assistants as the chief cook deems necessary. A team shall not compete in more than one KCBS sanctioned contest under the same team name, on the same date. Chief cooks and/or assistant cooks may only cook for their designated team at the contest they are attending.”

I definitely agree with Brads explanation, but I also agree with your statement about enforcing a rule that really isn’t written that way.

[Jorge]

It came into play 9 or so years ago. The reasoning follows the logic Brad laid out.

[gettinbasted]

Originally Posted by Jorge

It came into play 9 or so years ago. The reasoning follows the logic Brad laid out.

Yep. It used to be a problem. Points/draws/qualifications follow the chief cook not necessarily the team. If he/she is not in attendance they don’t get credited to him/her.

I could have 2 head cooks for my team under the current rules, but all of the results would apply to the cook who served as the head cook at each contest.

[manmeatbbq]

Originally Posted by GrillBillie_D

Another interesting topic was discussed in the rules committee. They discussed ideas about why contests and teams are disappearing and one idea discussed was dropping brisket entirely.

I noticed this as well. I know there are board members who know what the issue is (it's not brisket). Do we have a couple Board members that have more power than the others that can't get out of their own way? Wanna get people excited about competing again? Just fix the judging issues (btw - it's not a seating program problem). Require a re-certification at some level, set some basic rules for being a judge like "must have teeth, or required to wear dentures when judging". Start doing some of these things and with time, you might win back some teams that have left. The teams that these basic things hurt the most are the under the 10-15 contest teams, which represents the majority of the teams.

[midwest_kc]

Originally Posted by egorham

Where in the rules does it say a head cook (or chief cook in the 2019 rules) has to be in attendance? I noticed that rules committee opined on this but I don't see anywhere in the rules that a head cook needs to be at the contest. Is this something in an advisory?


I don't disagree with a rule requiring the head cook be in attendance, for the reason stated above, but it seems odd to require it without it being stated in the rules.

I know there have been times when I had to work on Friday, and showed up late. Check in was done, my teammates know my KCBS number (though they have even called to ask before), and no one ever has come by to make sure I showed. Seems like this rule isn't enforced super thoroughly (or maybe it's because they know we're nobodies and aren't going to factor in to any points chase)

[Right on Q]

Originally Posted by manmeatbbq

I noticed this as well. I know there are board members who know what the issue is (it's not brisket). Do we have a couple Board members that have more power than the others that can't get out of their own way? Wanna get people excited about competing again? Just fix the judging issues (btw - it's not a seating program problem). Require a re-certification at some level, set some basic rules for being a judge like "must have teeth, or required to wear dentures when judging". Start doing some of these things and with time, you might win back some teams that have left. The teams that these basic things hurt the most are the under the 10-15 contest teams, which represents the majority of the teams.

These area all good points but doesn't address the top reason for less teams. Expenses. Comp BBQ is an expensive hobby. We haven't done many contests the last couple of years due to this. I love competing but it's difficult to drop $1000 a weekend 20 times a year. Not sure how KCBS could fix this, or if they should, but it's why so many folks are dropping out after the "BBQ Pitmasters" bump

[midwest_kc]

I agree that expense is a deterrent to a lot of people. I just don't know how, realistically, to change it at this point. I love the guinea pig concept, but there are a lot of legit issues with making it "the way" and a lot of teams that want to bring their own meat in.

Maybe a set up where people can pick up their meat at a comp at a great price from a sponsor? Even then, that would probably lead to lower prize pools as you're taking someone who may have given cash as a sponsor and having them give discounts on products instead.

I don't know the answer, but judging is important, but cost is a major issue that keeps teams from doing any, or the guys doing 1-2 from doing 6-8.

[manmeatbbq]

Originally Posted by Right on Q

These area all good points but doesn't address the top reason for less teams. Expenses. Comp BBQ is an expensive hobby. We haven't done many contests the last couple of years due to this. I love competing but it's difficult to drop $1000 a weekend 20 times a year. Not sure how KCBS could fix this, or if they should, but it's why so many folks are dropping out after the "BBQ Pitmasters" bump

I don't disagree with this. I know that is the most likely reason we saw the thought of dropping brisket as counting toward GC, since it is the most expensive category. It is definitely an expensive hobby, especially if you don't have multiple teammates that are helping with the costs.

[tduffy]

Originally Posted by midwest_kc

I know there have been times when I had to work on Friday, and showed up late. Check in was done, my teammates know my KCBS number (though they have even called to ask before), and no one ever has come by to make sure I showed. Seems like this rule isn't enforced super thoroughly (or maybe it's because they know we're nobodies and aren't going to factor in to any points chase)

It's not enforced. I know a team last year that cooked a contest under the head cook and it was known from the start he'd never be there.

[tduffy]

Originally Posted by Right on Q

These area all good points but doesn't address the top reason for less teams. Expenses. Comp BBQ is an expensive hobby. We haven't done many contests the last couple of years due to this. I love competing but it's difficult to drop $1000 a weekend 20 times a year. Not sure how KCBS could fix this, or if they should, but it's why so many folks are dropping out after the "BBQ Pitmasters" bump

Competition BBQ has never been cheap. People always bring up the cost. There was never a time competition BBQ was cheap. You know this going into it. Or should at least.

[tduffy]

Originally Posted by midwest_kc

I agree that expense is a deterrent to a lot of people. I just don't know how, realistically, to change it at this point. I love the guinea pig concept, but there are a lot of legit issues with making it "the way" and a lot of teams that want to bring their own meat in.

Maybe a set up where people can pick up their meat at a comp at a great price from a sponsor? Even then, that would probably lead to lower prize pools as you're taking someone who may have given cash as a sponsor and having them give discounts on products instead.

I don't know the answer, but judging is important, but cost is a major issue that keeps teams from doing any, or the guys doing 1-2 from doing 6-8.

I know this....... they day I can't bring my own meat that I selected and trimmed......... I'm done. Meat provided contests don't level playing fields, it just shuffles the decks. Ask anyone who has ever cooked these events and you'll hear that the quality of meat between coolers is not equal. Some have gotten some real junk.



Some teams can win brisket with primes and commodity pork and chicken wins every weekend. People aren't getting outspent, they are getting out worked.

[manmeatbbq]

Originally Posted by tduffy

. People aren't getting outspent, they are getting out worked.

^^^^^This^^^^^

There may be a few teams that are leaving due to expense that got in from the Pitmasters "bump", however, if those teams were winning, they wouldn't leave. Everyone has an equal chance to win, but that opportunity starts before the contest starts.

[egorham]

I am not sure if this should be its own thread or if this is the proper place for the discussion.

I think the worst thing that could happen is to think there is a one-way fits all solution. Meat provided contests, excluding brisket, paying deeper into the finishing order (top 10 in categories and overall) and any other "solutions" all have their place but the best way forward is to let the promoters do whatever they can to differentiate their events.

The biggest issue with loosing events is that there is not a very good way for the promoters to generate a return on their investment. The competitive teams don't want to do samples (I am in this category so I am not throwing stones here, although some don't consider me competitive) and the health departments make it hard to have a mix of comp and vending.

My guess is we are loosing teams at the same rate but we are not adding in new teams as fast as we used to. BBQ Pitmasters was great advertising for competitive BBQ and not having BBQ on TV has caused the interest has die down.