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Old 11-30-2013, 12:28 PM   #196
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Not to hijack but.... This whole rules confusion is the product of teleconference meetings.

No organization can adequately function when their business is conducted via teleconference only. The BoD has too many members as it is. The rules should be written plain and simple with foot notes to the intention. When you write a constitutional essay for each rule you get the KCBS catalog of Pork Rules...

After cooking 36 contests in 11 different states this year, No two were regulated with any consistency. This is a Administrative deficiency in which in turn once again is a BoD responsibility which will never be addressed telephonically.

It would seem from the outside looking in that the whole organization needs an update/overhaul. This whole Pork debacle represents that, but that won't happen until the money runs out I suppose.
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #197
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Amen brother.
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:05 PM   #198
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The Dream in 2015!!!!
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:03 PM   #199
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The Dream in 2015!!!!

Only if we can meet in a Cage..... Now That'd Be Funky!
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:08 PM   #200
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The rules should be written plain and simple with foot notes to the intention. When you write a constitutional essay for each rule you get the KCBS catalog of Pork Rules..
I agree, rules should be simply stated. As written, it's quite clear in it's intent. People are trying to twist it into something it's not by saying stuff like "What does Pork mean anyway?" but that's trying to inject a lot of legalese into a rule that is (rightly) a few sentences.

You have to cook a shoulder, boston butt, or a picnic. You can't cut it up into little pieces until it's cooked. After that, you can. Simply. Easy. We know what it means. The reps know what it means. Trying to wordsmith it into something else is a waste of time.
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:48 AM   #201
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But by not wordsmithing you will get what we had. Folks interpreting it And thinking they can put their pulled, sliced or chunked was not considered parting. Look, the only way this rule will ever be good is to get the BOD to have reps enforce it. The BOD is controlled by reps. Why does anyone think that reps would support this extra work and step? They obviously would rather have teams bending and breaking the rules is what it tells me. Does more cooks on the BOD work? I'm not really sure how this rule clears any confusion, other than people that can't cook can reheat their product after they pull it. This whole crap about serving warm food? BS. I have to wear special gloves to handle my pork and I guess I am in a small percentage of cooks that is good enough to get both pulled and sliced from the same butt. Oh some BOD member will come along and compare what my scores have done recently and maybe I don't really know how to cook pork. Not sure how that adds to any of this mass chaos that has been created and not clearly defined though.....
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:54 AM   #202
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Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:56 PM   #203
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So whatever the Pork rule is in place in 2014, is it up to the table CBJ's
to look for, or does that happen before?
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:10 PM   #204
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Quote:
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Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.
Crystal clear for whom? Reading the thread indicates that there may be confusion over the 4 lbs, before it is inspected or 4 lbs when it hits the cooker or both? What constitutes trimming? Trimming for some may be parting for others. But parting implies that all will be cooked while trimming implies that some will not be used or cooked. Need a few additional words to actually convey the intent of the rule.

I currently cook 2 8-10 pounds butts and get what I need from them once cooked. Others don't. When I am preparing my turn-in tray, I wear heat gloves so I can pull and slice and chunk. At this stage it is going in the box because turn-in time is less than 5 minutes away. Why do I need to put it back on the smoker? Set the sauce?

I pulled the pork at some temp and placed in a cambro prior to the box stage. Most of the time I have already started the cooling cycle for my cookers and starting the packing process.

I question the need for the rule except for clarification of the old rule unless it is for those who can't cook pork. Just being a devils advocate
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Old 12-01-2013, 05:29 PM   #205
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Wow, I never realized the way to see if someone is a great pork cook is to see how hot their pork is while being prepped for the box. Instead of having reps do spot inspections of pork, maybe they should just stick Thermopens into everyone's pork at 12:45 and see whose pork is hottest? Might improve my pork results.

I'm not sure why so much focus is on how a pork butt is cooked, while the other categories have turned into phosphate-laden, butter-braised hunks of meat that bear a passing resemblance to BBQ. Want to accentuate skill in BBQ competitions? Ban the use of phosphates (the only purpose of which is to allow meat to retain moisture if overcooked) and braising in butter (which is not, as far as I understand it, a traditional BBQ cooking method). No, I am not advocating either, but I don't see how we can say a deboned chicken thigh ball injected with phosphates and cooked in a vat of melted Parkay is still a measure of someone's BBQ skill, but allowing someone to reheat their pulled pork is dumbing things down.

Oh, and before anyone asks -- I need to wear thick cotton gloves underneath nitrile gloves when I pull pork. :-)
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Old 12-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBQ View Post
Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too.
Exactly. The intent of the OLD rule was crystal clear, and yet we ended up with the Pork Collar Advisory being read at every cooks' meeting so that we all could recite it verbatim by the end of the season, and people posting on this very forum that they were damn well going to reheat (or "set sauce" ) whatever they wanted because nobody was going to catch them.

The big push to change the rule to allow returning parted pork to the cooker is just to legalize what was already going on.
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:36 PM   #207
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Quote:
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The money muscle is pork!
were can I get a 5lb mm
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Old 12-01-2013, 06:38 PM   #208
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Quote:
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Scottie, some people are always going to try and bend the rule to suit them. Just look at the discussion here. The intent of the rule is crystal clear, but some people are going to try and twist it anyway. Short of having a two page rule, I think that's always going to be the case. I'm OK with the new rule, but the old one was fine too. I doubt I'm changing the way I cook pork.
I completely agree, the rule is what it is and I will not change the way I cook pork as I was within the rules last year. I think it is a simple rule as well as it should be. Those who read the rule with no agenda will interpret it as the BOD intended, to challenge the teams to cook a large piece of meat and make it great, without having to separate it into smaller parts precook.
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Old 12-01-2013, 08:17 PM   #209
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[QUOTE=Smoke'n Ice;2710619]Another idea for the rule would be as follows:

Current

PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After trimming, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Suggested
PORK: Pork is defined as Boston Butt, Boston Roast, Picnic and/or Whole Shoulder, weighing a minimum of four (4) pounds at time of inspection. After minimal trimming with all muscle groups left intact with no separation, pork shall be cooked whole (bone in or bone out), however, once cooked, it may be separated and returned to the cooker at the cook's discretion. It may be turned in chopped, pulled, chunked, sliced or a combination of any of those.

Great suggestion but "Cooked" needs to be defined as "Above 160 degrees" ?? otherwise rule benders will throw it on the smoker 5 minutes, then part it and throw it on the grill...
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Old 12-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
Crystal clear for whom? Reading the thread indicates that there may be confusion over the 4 lbs, before it is inspected or 4 lbs when it hits the cooker or both?
It's right there in the rule, at the time of inspection.

Quote:
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What constitutes trimming? Trimming for some may be parting for others. But parting implies that all will be cooked while trimming implies that some will not be used or cooked.
Trimming is removing some of the fat and shaping the meat. Cutting off the money muscle and throwing the rest of the butt out is not trimming. How do we know this? If this was not the intent of the rule, there would be no need to refer to cooking the butt whole. The wording of the rule makes the intent clear. Cook it to 145 degrees and then do what you want with it.

You are correct that trimming implies the trimmed material is waste and not cooked. It's no longer part of the "whole" butt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
I currently cook 2 8-10 pounds butts and get what I need from them once cooked. Others don't. When I am preparing my turn-in tray, I wear heat gloves so I can pull and slice and chunk. At this stage it is going in the box because turn-in time is less than 5 minutes away. Why do I need to put it back on the smoker? Set the sauce?
You don't have to return pork to the smoker, but you could if you wanted to under this rule. I cook my pork whole, and pull just before it's boxed - and this rule change won't alter my process. I could see that at some contests (like the freezing weather at The Jack this year) pulling everything earlier and putting the turn in items back on the heat for a short time before boxing might be a benefit.
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