What's more important - The prep before or after the meat comes off of the smoker?

Stark-O-Rama

Stark-O-Rama

Knows what a fatty is.
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
186
Reaction score
106
Points
0
Location
Orange...
I'm starting to wonder if I've got things backwards for Competition Q. I've been more focused on everything I do to prep the meat before I smoke it i.e. Injecting, Rubbing, Wrapping, etc. I'm starting to wonder if everyone that's consistently walking is even more focused on how they treat the meat AFTER it's been smoked. Now I know IT'S ALL IMPORTANT....however, I'm going to assume that most of us make great BBQ. Which leads me to wonder if there's some magic going on once you've smoked perfectly - and the thing that separates the winners from the losers is some major doctoring after the meat comes off of the smoker.....hmmmm...:crazy:
 
After.

Our prep is always the same. If we screw something up, it happens after 10AM on turn in day.

Doctoring, yes, but cooking for the right doneness, timing wrapping, glazing properly, keeping to a schedule, putting the best pieces in the box - all that stuff can go wrong in the last 2 hours. Very little goes wrong in prep that you can't correct.
 
My advice, and I don't know you at all, no booze until after turn in. If you drink, cool, keep them cold until after the final turn in and then celebrate like crazy. Focus on your timeline and don't vary from what has brought you previous success. Trust me, I love to booze it up, but, as Myron says, you can't win the party Friday night, and then win the competition.
 
ITBFQ said:
My advice, and I don't know you at all, no booze until after turn in. If you drink, cool, keep them cold until after the final turn in and then celebrate like crazy. Focus on your timeline and don't vary from what has brought you previous success. Trust me, I love to booze it up, but, as Myron says, you can't win the party Friday night, and then win the competition.
Click to expand...

Yah, the booze definitely isn't our problem. We've just been finishing in the middle of the pack, and we're all pretty frustrated. We see the same teams win over & over again - Congrats to them, they're awesome. However there has to be something that they are doing after the cook that really sets it apart. We have consistently had what we, and some of our Comp neighbors thought was walkable product, but often have been really disappointed with where we finish. We have walked for pork, but that same exact pork came in the middle of the pack at the next comp.

Should we be injecting the meat after we pull it off of the smoker? Butter, aus jus, and rub? I'm sure most who walk consistently aren't going to give away their secrets, but man, this is a wonderful and frustrating "sport"!:clap2::mad2:
 
I have come to a point where I believe that there are certain popular rules of thumb that are not necessarily 100% true. I think that many top teams know the full truth regarding what the averge judge likes. Obviously its not an exact science, or a few teams would win every time.

I'll give an example. The general KCBS BBQ public has been taught that the bite mark on a perfectly cooked rib will be perfectly shaped. The truth is that a perfect bite mark can just as easily be found on an undercooked rib. IMHO a bite mark that is slightly ragged around the edge and leaves the bone clean in that one spot is a more accurate description. Despite the negative stigma associated with the term, I think the ideal texture is closer to "fallin off the bone" than many would admit.

That's just one example, but I'm sure that there are quite a few others that folks keep to themselves.
 
I'm going to go with the spectacularly unhelpful answer of "both".

Good meat presented badly will still do well, but it won't reach its full potential score. Conversely, the meat has to be perfectly cooked, or all the tapdancing in the world between the cooker and the box won't save it.
 
I'd say it's both..you've got to know how to prep correctly but also know how to finish correctly as well...perfectly cooked meat and a balanced flavor profile are what wins IMO.
 
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that if your "meat is too anything, then you're f$%ked!" I laughed when I read that, but I know what they mean. Your flavor profile has to be well balanced with complimenting flavors. We're working on it ourselves and it's been hit & miss.
 
I would say after. Especially as far as the taste goes. If you are putting glazes, sauces, and stuff on before going into the box, those things are what is going to be first tasted by the judge; whatever hits the tongue first is what makes the "first impression". The fact that final sauce or glaze is applied last will say what is tasted first.

wallace
 
I would say both as well. Agree with Scottie...nail them both and you will do great.

One thing you didn't mention which I think is equally important is meat selection. It all starts there.
 
Could it also be, "during" the cook, not just before and after? Pit temps, when to wrap, moisture, etc...I think we all have similiar methods of trimming, injecting, seasoning and such, but the differences to me come from during and after the cook.
 
Lake Dogs said:
What separates the top 3 to 5 in every contest from the middle-of-the-pack folks is tenderness.
Click to expand...

Not that I have a lot of experience, but the little that I do agrees with the tenderness point. We've been nailing it on ribs and pork and consistently doing well. One week we had the tenderness right in chicken, but not a great flavor, then the next competition we had the tenderness wrong but great flavor and our scores went down. We've been working hard on being consistent with tenderness first, then getting that flavor balance right.
 
  1. If you are not a CBJ you should be.
  2. Judge a few contest so you will know what judges are looking for, until then you are just throwing away money, time, and effort unless you are lucky.
  3. Don't just cook until you get the product right, cook until you can't get it wrong.
  4. What works in the Backyard will seldom work in the arena.
  5. Most winning teams are cooking 20+ contest a year and have been doing it for 3-5+ year. It's like any sport, few can be successfully without putting in a lot of time, practice, and effort. Professional BBQ is no different.
  6. Be prepared. This starts weeks ahead of the contest. Use a equipment checklist. There are several available on the internet. Taylor the list to you needs. Make your injections and trim chicken the week (Tuesday/Wednesday) of the contest at home. Some also trim all of the meats at home. You can not season, marinate, brine, or inject, any meat, only trim.
  7. Make a time table schedule and print out your recipes; refer to them at the site and follow as best possible.
  8. Get a large atomic clock and place it where it can be seen from the cutting board.
  9. Simple mistakes will happen and can cost you a point or two, like not heating the glaze, on forgetting to add that final dusting of rub will happen. Most can be eliminated if you are following the schedule/recipe.
  10. Last minute changes seldom improves the product.
  11. Don't leave your best meat on the cutting board.
  12. Always taste your product you're tuning in.
  13. Overs beat unders, but perfect wins everytime.
  14. Most point costing errors happen in the last 10 minutes before turn-in because amble time was not allowed to propertly box the product.
  15. Even when you put your best product in the box, the final outcome is in the hands of the judges. At every contest there will be what are called "Hot" and "Cold" Tables. On the new score sheets this can be figured out. But what is most important on the sheets are your scores and your placement on the table. If you are winning the table, you are doing well.
 
CBQ said:
After.

Our prep is always the same. If we screw something up, it happens after 10AM on turn in day.

Doctoring, yes, but cooking for the right doneness, timing wrapping, glazing properly, keeping to a schedule, putting the best pieces in the box - all that stuff can go wrong in the last 2 hours. Very little goes wrong in prep that you can't correct.
Click to expand...

This - you can memorize and calculate prep to the point it's foolproof and you do it perfectly every time. It's the aftercare during and after the cook that matters.

Myself? I don't have any "tricks" other than vigilance. My best results have come from obsessive fire control, precise timing by paying attention to what the meat tells me when I check on it and reacting to changes that I can't control.

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE - the more mistakes and unplanned obstacles you overcome over time, the less you'll screw up when it matters.
 
J&B'sBBQ said:
Not that I have a lot of experience, but the little that I do agrees with the tenderness point. We've been nailing it on ribs and pork and consistently doing well. One week we had the tenderness right in chicken, but not a great flavor, then the next competition we had the tenderness wrong but great flavor and our scores went down. We've been working hard on being consistent with tenderness first, then getting that flavor balance right.
Click to expand...


I've judged a few KCBS contests a long time ago, and more than a few MIM, MBN, GBA, and non-sanctioned contests over time. The ONE thing that has been consistent across all tables, all contests (regardless of sanctioning bodies), is that the best overall scorer at the table nailed tenderness the best. Every once in a while (on good days) you'll have 2 or 3 entries at your table that does this (nails tenderness perfectly), and that's when taste and preferences really come in to play. MBN, MIM, and GBA are all comparative judging, and while those days are great to be a judge, it's rare that all 5 judges agree which is/was the best flavor...

To Stark's original question, I know this doesn't answer it as you'd asked the question, but I hope it helps you move from the middle of the pack to that top 10 or 20 percent. Also know that what's perfectly tender going into the box may not (and probably isn't) perfectly tender 10 minutes or so later when the judges open the box and take a minute or two to judge presentation. Normally BBQ cools, and as it does, it tends to firm up a little... This helps if your BBQ is slightly over-cooked, but does you no favors if it's perfect going in the box...
 
bruno994 said:
Could it also be, "during" the cook, not just before and after? Pit temps, when to wrap, moisture, etc...I think we all have similiar methods of trimming, injecting, seasoning and such, but the differences to me come from during and after the cook.
Click to expand...


I agree. It could be during the cook. Are you LOOKIN or COOKIN? I had a hard time with this for a while. I just wanted to see what it was doing. The fact is that my pit temp was all farked up because I was lookin. Now that I started cookin I've noticed that even though I haven't walked yet that I am well on my way and moving up the ladder in just over a years time
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

cayenne
First Brisket on the new BlueSmoke Smoker offset stick burner...
2
Replies
30
Views
2K
Hinds15
H
cayenne
FIRST COOK on the new Offset Smoker!!! Pictures and comments...
2
Replies
22
Views
889
Bury Me In Smoke
B
J
Only Three Toppings Plus One - Pizza Edition
2
Replies
28
Views
1K
Aggie12
A
smoke ninja
some of the best cooks I've had...
Replies
7
Views
734
smoke ninja
smoke ninja
J
Long Post of Disappointing Rants and Dreaming of a LSG Pellet Grill
Replies
4
Views
1K
jrTheSmoker
J
Back
Top