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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 04-02-2011, 12:00 AM   #31
stglide
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Thumbs up 20% off at Auber

Auber is running a 20% off sale online... I picked up the SYL-1613SYS-10CFM Barrel Smoker kit for $133 bucks.... figured worth a try, and with all the parts, would be a good start until I can get me a Guru!
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:46 AM   #32
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Excellent post, Righteousdog. Nice photos, and really nice explanation.
I managed to fit all my wires and jack inside the box. I think next time I will replicate with the break-out style you used though.


I did a test cook over the weekend, and it worked pretty well. I did get some oscillations, but I think part of it was due to my TC probe getting dripped on with meat juice, and the location I had it mounted.

You brought up tuning, which is a question i had. Have you tinkered with the settings that Auberins has in their manual? Basically P=1.2 ot=10, I=300, d=70, and SouF=0.7.

I ran with this, and it worked decently. But I still had quite a bit of droop, and some overshoot. Some of this was fuel related maybe.....I suspect clogged ash in my firebox. Temp dropped and dropped, I was about 10-15 degrees south of my set point of 230F. Then it came on full force because I was outside the P Band. It started cycling as it came up to temp, but then it overshot by 10-15 degrees. It didn't do this every time, but I did notice it on several occasions in the 12 hour cook.

I am wondering if I increase my P by .5 or so, if that will help this out. Still trying to learn about the I & D, and the damping and how to tune these. I would just try some more trials, but it takes a long time to trial a cooker like this and watch the slow oscillations.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:56 AM   #33
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Great thread. I'm also following the HeaterMeter development over on the Webber forum. Since I'm not an engineer or electronics saavy person, a home build isn't likely for me. Though I have a solder gun.

I like the idea of customizing and building exactly what I want, however. Also going with heavy duty components

So does limit me to off the shelf units like Guru / Stoker?
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by righteousdog View Post
thx

details:

the button head drill-tap is the hardest part. as noted, if you didn't care about removing the fan from the adapter for whatever reason, you could just jb weld or 2 part epoxy it on. not to open another can of worms, but remember whatever sealant you use is "in contact" with the air into your food...and then there's the galvanized EMT to deal with...oh crap i guess i better scrap this...





top view. i'm about as good (and patient) with caulk as i am painting. since it's only a $12 fan and my time i was more concerned with function over form for the prototype. the EMT slides into a 1" set screw connector which threads into my gate valve on the UDS for removal as noted and shown in previous post.

the concept behind NOT having a flapper is this: you choke your intake down below where you would normally run, essentially starving the draft somewhat. the blower will makeup this difference doing what a closed loop PID should do and modulating the fan (draft). undoubtedly, this will take some dialing in based on your smokers attributes, PID settings, and ambient conditions.
I did a similar mount as this. I smashed the conduit until it fit without any measurable force. Then I just drilled some holes to match a couple smaller 1/2" long sheet metal screws I had. I just tapped the housing and pipe with a sacrificial screw of the same size. Seemed to work okay. After I got the screws to fit, I removed them and dremel-tool'd off the protruding ends of the screws and put them back in.

Once I RTV'd the gaps, it is rock solid.

Once again, Thank You Righteousdog! Your design is simple and it works great.

Also worth noting, is that I had to put a reducer on my setscrew connector, because I have 3/4" ball-valve on my UDS. This makes it stick out farther, but there is no heat transfer to the fan or condiut. So, I think the galvanized conduit or the housing sealant are a non-issue. High temp RTV is probably overkill for my setup, but it all costs the same anyway, for the pretty red color or not.

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Old 04-04-2011, 12:16 PM   #35
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Quote:
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That's great! You ought to see my home built cheese smoker with a computer fan driving the smoke.
Let's see a pic. I'd love to see that.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:18 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedW View Post
Great thread. I'm also following the HeaterMeter development over on the Webber forum. Since I'm not an engineer or electronics saavy person, a home build isn't likely for me. Though I have a solder gun.

I like the idea of customizing and building exactly what I want, however. Also going with heavy duty components

So does limit me to off the shelf units like Guru / Stoker?
It's easy TedW. Especially with this thread as a guide. I like to tinker with things, so I saw it as a small challenge to myself. But it really is pretty easy. The electronics end of it is minimal, if you use screw connectors and keep it simple. The hardest part was mounting the 1" electrical conduit into the fan housing, and that only took a vice, a hammer and drilling a couple small holes. The rest was a piece of cake. Instruction manual with the controller is straight forward.

The biggest downer for me of this whole thing was the shipping costs from Auberins.com and Newark, for the fan. All of the parts only totaled about $70-$80, but the shipping was over $17. Auberins is in Georgia, not sure why it costs $12.00 to ship it.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:21 PM   #37
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http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...3/m/5341028906

You've seen this?

I have a full shop so I can build / modify a lot. I just have no programming experience. I've built electronic things before but only with a manual with step-by-step instructions. So this intimidates me

Last edited by TedW; 04-04-2011 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedW View Post
http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...3/m/5341028906

You've seen this?

I have a full shop so I can build / modify a lot. I just have no programming experience. I've built electronic things before but only with a manual with step-by-step instructions. So this intimidates me
yup. looked that project over as well as stoker and guru before i decided i wanted something simpler.

mayb someday, but it's not on my immediate plate...
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:21 PM   #39
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To sum, your system is a similar concept without the remote info / internet?
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
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To sum, your system is a similar concept without the remote info / internet?
Correct. Righteousdog's is a little neater than mine with his wiring, but it is basically a 12 volt power supply, a PID controller (simple), and a DC blower fan. No real programming required. The PID controller from auberins.com (see link on above posts) is about as simple as it gets. Total cost of my build was about $90 plus shipping. If you have elec. conduit and wiring laying around, it would be less.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:59 PM   #41
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Man! I just want one of these...

Frankly with the Maverick 732 and the new high temp pit probe coming out, I would (personally) have no need for the remote info access. Just the heat control.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:54 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokindave74 View Post
Excellent post, Righteousdog. Nice photos, and really nice explanation.
thx

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokindave74 View Post
You brought up tuning, which is a question i had. Have you tinkered with the settings that Auberins has in their manual? Basically P=1.2 ot=10, I=300, d=70, and SouF=0.7.
the only thing i changed was OT=20 on my setup, because i thought the fan was short cycling a bit much BUT...

you are on the right path reading the manual and trying to understand what you are doing. i don't want to give too much out with HOW anyone should set their unit up, because there's too many variables. the only recommendation i WILL give is DON'T change to many things at once, or you lose track of what changes ARE working for your setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokindave74 View Post
It didn't do this every time, but I did notice it on several occasions in the 12 hour cook.
you mentioned you think your t/c placement was not right...it shouldn't be in a spot where it's going to get dripped on by meat juice for sure. i typically keep my t/c near the side above grate level because it seems logical this would be a more stable spot. then again it depends on your style of fuel loading and flavor wood placement...if any (variables). unless you're using a diffuser or wpan (i don't) you're bound to get a flare up. obviously the fan shouldn't be running then but dont go crazy OCD.

i do notice quite a dif with my PID temp vs the maverick (et-732 fluctuates more) but i try not to get too anal - i actually trust the PID more.

plus there's that adage about a person with two watches vs one :)

PS - i hope your 'q was good
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by righteousdog View Post
thx

the only thing i changed was OT=20 on my setup, because i thought the fan was short cycling a bit much BUT...

you are on the right path reading the manual and trying to understand what you are doing. i don't want to give too much out with HOW anyone should set their unit up, because there's too many variables. the only recommendation i WILL give is DON'T change to many things at once, or you lose track of what changes ARE working for your setup.
Understood, and you are right again.....lots of variables involved. Too much fiddling can be a problem. I will probably lengthen my cycle longer, as I noticed the same thing you did, very short pulses.

My next mod will be shielding the probe from the top from any meat juice. Right now I have the TC probe alligator clipped to my secondary thermometer probe, just above my lower grate, in the center. I think I will put a small aluminum roof over that to deflect and drippings. I think that will work.

On a side note, you had mentioned MTBF on the EM relay. I did a little rough math calc and I figured that if it cycles 10 times a minute times 12 hours, that is about 7000 cycles on a 12 hour cook. 100 cooks would be 700,000 cycles. But we are talking about a tiny load and voltage, so maybe this thing will last 1 million cycles. In any event, I am guessing that if the EMR does eventually fail, I can buy a SSR, and rewire it to use that mode instead, correct?
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by smokindave74 View Post
On a side note, you had mentioned MTBF on the EM relay. I did a little rough math calc and I figured that if it cycles 10 times a minute times 12 hours, that is about 7000 cycles on a 12 hour cook. 100 cooks would be 700,000 cycles. But we are talking about a tiny load and voltage, so maybe this thing will last 1 million cycles. In any event, I am guessing that if the EMR does eventually fail, I can buy a SSR, and rewire it to use that mode instead, correct?
i'll have to pay more attention to mine next run, but i think 10 cycles a minute is pretty high. either way you're close to what i figured, which was 86 12 hour cooks. i still think it will last longer, based on how many controllers i DONT replace at the day job :)

yes you are correct, you can rewire for the external SSR using the controllers internal SSR, which has nothing to do with the relay. too bad they didn't put an internal SSR in there that would handle the load straight off...

think of the P as the gas and the I as the brake. the higher the value the harder you flooring it (and usually having overshoot) or hitting the brakes. they are interactive, so depending on what the system is doing should help to decide which one to adjust. baby steps. once dialed in ambient and fuel should be less of an issue.
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Last edited by righteousdog; 04-05-2011 at 04:02 PM..
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Old 04-06-2011, 11:07 PM   #45
stglide
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Keep it rolling! I just got my Auberin's smoker unit, so I hope to try it this weekend. I'm not a electronic wiz, so may be asking a few more questions once I get it the chance to try it out!
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