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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 05-15-2018, 02:12 PM   #1
scotts1919
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Default prague powder

hello all. I am going to try my hand at homemade corned beef turned into pastrami. Anybody know where to get prague powder or instacure locally (chicago area)? Whats the diffence, is there?

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Old 05-15-2018, 02:34 PM   #2
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I know you said in store, but I got mine on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Curing-Prague...nk%2Bsalt&th=1
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:38 PM   #3
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Call a couple of real butcher (or sausage) shops and see if they will sell you some. It takes so little they will likely just give some to you. You want Instacure #1 not #2. It also goes by Prague #1 or pink salt.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:37 PM   #4
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Prague powder is the same a "pink salt" (not Himalayan) or "curing salt" both of which are used for corning beef or making pastrami (which I just did last week). you don't have to make corned beef and then pastrami from that instead you take your brisket and put on a rub of black pepper, garlic powder, crushed coriander seed and pink salt. Place it in a bag for 7 days flipping the bag every day. After 7 days, take it out of the bag and wash off the rub and soak it for 5 hours changing the water every hour. Dry the brisket and reapply the rub mixture MINUS THE PINK SALT and smoke it for about 8-9 hours at 225 until an internal temp of 165. You now have pastrami. If you're ging to eat the entire thing at one time, put it in a pot to steam for about 20 minutes or slice off what you want and nuke it for 20-30 seconds. It's the best!!!!! Goo luck with your cook.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:14 PM   #5
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Lots of good resources above, as stated above it is readily available at multiple sources, and goes by a multitude of names.... I just need to add the following.

Cure #1 is also known by the following names.... Pink Salt #1, Tinted Cure Mix (TCM), Tinted Curing Powder (TCP), Prague powder #1, InstaCure #1, Modern cure. D.Q. powder, FLP, L.E.M. cure, Sure Cure, Fast Cure, or Speed Cure. They are all the same basic formulations and can be used interchangeably.
http://www.sausagemaker.com/searchre...e+%231&Submit= Free shipping on orders of $50.00 or more.

However Cure #2 should never be substituted for Cure #1. The same hold true for Morton Tenderquick.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:26 PM   #6
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I'm gld I found this thread, but want to be SURE.... Morton Tenderquick is NOT good, correct?

I have been seeing it in the local grocery, and wasn't sure whether I SHOULD, or SHOULD NOT buy it.


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Old 05-15-2018, 09:54 PM   #7
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Not for what you are doing no. I never use it but some guys on here might. It has too much sodium chloride (regular table salt).
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeLongWNYer View Post
I'm gld I found this thread, but want to be SURE.... Morton Tenderquick is NOT good, correct?

I have been seeing it in the local grocery, and wasn't sure whether I SHOULD, or SHOULD NOT buy it.


JBP
Tenderquick is fine, as long as you are using it in a recipe, that calls for it. Tenderquick is a pre-made dry cure. It can not be used as a substitute for cure #1, but it has cure #1 in it.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
I'm gld I found this thread, but want to be SURE.... Morton Tenderquick is NOT good, correct?

I have been seeing it in the local grocery, and wasn't sure whether I SHOULD, or SHOULD NOT buy it.
Not remotely the same as Prague #1.
I use it in recipes that call for it only.
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Old 05-15-2018, 10:42 PM   #10
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Got it, thanks. I am making a note in my phone. Otherwise, I'll have forgotten by the time I get to the store.



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Old 05-16-2018, 06:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeLongWNYer View Post
I'm gld I found this thread, but want to be SURE.... Morton Tenderquick is NOT good, correct?

I have been seeing it in the local grocery, and wasn't sure whether I SHOULD, or SHOULD NOT buy it.


JBP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshw View Post
Tenderquick is fine, as long as you are using it in a recipe, that calls for it. Tenderquick is a pre-made dry cure. It can not be used as a substitute for cure #1, but it has cure #1 in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchar69 View Post
Not remotely the same as Prague #1.
I use it in recipes that call for it only.

All good information.... and I agree, but this brings up another issue of concern . . . the cure #1, the salt, and the sugar needs to be properly calculated and weighed in grams according to the total weight of the meat.


However, I actually recommend using Morton Tender Quick to beginners who do not have a proper scale to measure the ingredients of a dry cure in Grams, based on the weight of the meat. So for those who wish to measure the ingredients rather than weigh them, Morton Tender Quick is a safer product.

"Morton's TenderQuick" is a brand name of another formulation of sodium nitrite, sodium nitrate, with salt, and sugars added. It is not the same concentration as "Cure #1. Since the amount of nitrite present in a recipe is essential for safety, one cannot take a recipe designed for Cure #1 and simply substitute like amounts of such products as "Morton's Tender Quick". To do so would invite the risk of botulism poisoning. Similarly, one cannot just substitute Cure #1 in place of "Morton's Tender Quick" without creating health risks. I do not advocate the use of substitutions, instead one should use a recipe designed for the specific cure being used.

Morton developed "Tender Quick" so that the home cook could safely cure meat. "Morton Tender Quick" is not a meat tenderizer nor is it a seasoning. These are cures that should only be used in recipes calling for curing meat, fish, or poultry. They should be stored and locked far away from your normal everyday spice/salt cabinet. They do not have the red coloring agent, they should never be substituted for salt, so be especially careful when using and storing this product to eliminate the possibility of making your family ill.

"Morton Tender Quick" is a bonded premix formulations of salt, sodium nitrite, and sodium nitrate to be used directly from the bag for the curing process, no additional salt is required for the cure. Morton products contain 0.5% sodium nitrite, 0.5% sodium nitrate, and also includes propylene glycol to keep the mixture stable.

Because Morton products are pre-formulated to be used according to the manufactures recommendations, I highly recommend the use of this curing agent for someone curing for the first time, as well as for the beginner in general. The premix formulation makes it easy to measure the correct amount without having to purchase a scale or calculate the required amounts of each ingredient. Because it is bonded premix it also makes it a little harder to make mistakes as long as you follow the manufactures recommendation.

When using Morton Tender Quick, the final product can sometimes seem a little salty, but a soak in cold water can remove the saltiness.

But most importantly - there are thousands of recipes on the internet for curing. Just because they are there doesn't mean they are good or that they are safe. Use only a recipe from a reliable expert in the craft. I find that too many people just copy a recipe to post it to their site without referencing or verifying the accuracy of the ingredients.

So the next point I want to make is the validity of recipes....

If you're really interested in curing meats or sausage making, then invest in one of these recommended books for sausage making and curing meats....



I would suggest doing some reading before you make the leap so you have an understanding of some of the processes...... Keep in mind there are many different types of sausages; some are made and cooked fresh, some contain a cure so they can be safely smoked, while others are cured and dried. It is important that you follow the recipe using exact amounts as well as the proper procedures to maintain a safe meat product. When in doubt read and read again, and ask questions if you need to.

There are many great books and guides on curing meat and sausage making. I am sure almost everyone who posts may have a few recommendations for books on the subject. In my opinion, these are by far the best books for basic and advanced sausage making. They start with the basics and move forward to help you master the craft of curing and sausage making. Contains true recipes before the use of chemical enhancers/additives, and fillers were added to stretch the amount of commercial production.

While there are many books out there that all contain enough information to get you off to a good start, there are a few books that I would highly recommend.


First Recommendation..

Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages by Stanley Marianski and Adam Marianski


This is a book that covers everything from making a smokehouse, to curing meats, and making sausage. Very easy to read with a great collection of recipes and techniques for the beginner. This book is actually two other books ("Meat Smoking And Smokehouse Design" and "Polish Sausages, Authentic Recipes And Instructions") combined into one single book plus more on making sausage and curing meats. Most are simple one Kilogram recipes, so you can make a small batch of the product before deciding to make a large batch. This also makes it easier to make a larger batches with easy multiples. The use of a metric scale in sausage making and curing makes the process much more accurate and provides a consistent product time after time.


Second Recommendation..

Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing by Rytek Kutas and Ben Kutas


This is often called the definitive book on sausage making. The explanation of how cures work, and what they are for, just this understanding to a beginner is worth the price of the book. However the smallest quantity the recipes is for ten pounds, so a beginner will have to properly calculate and scale down the recipes. The book is equally helpful to the beginner or the advanced. Some of these recipes are a little too salty for my taste, but I just make a note in the book and reduce the salt in the next batch. The book also contains a some stories that are entertaining. *** DO NOT BUY THE BOOK / DVD COMBO, in my opinion the DVD is completely worthless, even to a beginner, but that's just my personal opinion.


Third Recommendation..

Charcuterie: The Craft of Salting, Smoking, and Curing by Michael Ruhlman and Brian Polcyn

This is a great book, although it lightly touches the basics, I feel the book is more for an intermediate or advanced sausage maker. Most recipes are in five pound batches, but I suggest you scale them down to try them before making a large batch. You'll find that you will have to tweak a lot of the recipes to your individual liking / tastes. This book takes sausage to the next level with using some top shelf ingredients as well as some hard to find ingredients to make sausages that could be considered in the "gourmet" classification. Michael Ruhlman has many proven recipes, but you must have an understanding of the basics before you try to get into the gourmet type recipes contained herein. Some of the recipes are a little heavy handed with salt and sometimes what I would consider heavy cure. So do your own calculations and make notes accordingly in the margin.



Also keep in mind that there are many great resources on the World-Wide-Web (Internet), but reference books are always good for checking factual information when in doubt.

I would stress to all beginners to use only a tested and proven recipe from a reliable source, there are many recipes I have found on the Internet that I would have concerns about. Just because it's out there doesn't mean it is correct. Also the use of an electronic scale that also has a metric mode is an invaluable must have. The weighing of the cure is critical to food safety, so if everything is properly weighed and not measured, you will have a great product in the end.

Here is a brief guide to what basics are needed to make your own sausage.
http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/Sau...equipment.html


Resources for tested recipes:

Wendliny Domowe - Meats and Sausage (Based on some of Marianski teachings/recipes):
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage-making

Len Paoli's Recipe site
http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage%20recipes.htm

The Spicy Sausage
http://thespicysausage.com/sausagemakingrecipes.htm

Sausage Mania
http://www.sausagemania.com/tutorial.html

Lets Make Sausage
http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/Sau...equipment.html

Sausage Making Org
http://forum.sausagemaking.org/

Northwest Smoking
http://web.archive.org/web/200102140...e/Sausage1.htm


Sausage Recipes from Stuffer's Supply Company in British Columbia, Canada
https://kickam2.com/sausage/sausrecp.pdf

Sausages West
http://sausageswest.com/7-recipe-index/
http://sausageswest.com/sausage-maki...e-close/index/

and so many more....

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Old 05-16-2018, 06:56 AM   #12
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The recommendation to use Tenderquick is way outdated IMHO. Yes it made measuring easier for those without a precise scale, but in the 21st century we can buy high precision digital scales that read to 0.1 gram for $20 or less.

If you want to cure, buy a scale and do everything by weight. Even if you are using Tenderquick. There is simply no good excuse to be guessing or getting close. Unless your volumes are huge, you will want 0.1 gram precision, not 1 gram so look for this when buying a scale.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMadMan View Post
All good information....
"All good information" says it all. And your follow-up is a very informative post.

My introduction to curing began about 40 years ago and Tender Quick was the curing agent of choice for home curing, and it's still vastly popular. I still use certain recipes that were built around that product. But because more people are taking the time to explain how to properly use the products and equipment preferred by more advanced charcuterists, new doors are opening which allow the amateur to venture into curing with confidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m-fine View Post
The recommendation to use Tenderquick is way outdated IMHO. Yes it made measuring easier for those without a precise scale, but in the 21st century we can buy high precision digital scales that read to 0.1 gram for $20 or less.

If you want to cure, buy a scale and do everything by weight. Even if you are using Tenderquick. There is simply no good excuse to be guessing or getting close. Unless your volumes are huge, you will want 0.1 gram precision, not 1 gram so look for this when buying a scale.
I agree that when Tender Quick was introduced, cooks may have a little more complacent about food safety than they are today... but it filled a niche for people wanting to cure things at home instead of buying them from a butcher shop. The early copy of the Morton Home Curing Guide I have not only explains technique but has a glossary of curing jargon. The recipes vary from curing hams to "quick curing" smaller cuts like pork chops and all ingredients are measured... nothing is weighed. If someone is dedicated to accuracy (as in performing some calculations and using a scale), they can begin their curing adventures with pink salt. If they want a larger window of safety, Tender Quick is a great option.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:55 AM   #14
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thanks for all the replies guys. Essentailly i was going to follow meatheads recipe for corned beef made into pastrami- https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...e-katzs-recipe

https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...ed-beef-recipe

anybody use these recipes?
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:29 AM   #15
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I respect your opinion and that's fine, but if it were outdated, it just wouldn't exist.

I agree with Thirdeye, there is a niche market for it, and one of them is the beginner to curing. We can't assume that someone who wants to cure meat possesses all the knowledge to make a good quality cured item. They have to begin somewhere, just like a baby learns to feed from a bottle long before they learn to sip from the cup.

Even here on the Brethren, I see many people who use questionable recipes, or prefer to measure rather than weigh because of the math and time to calculate. We also have a large audience that has never cured their own meat before and do not understand the concept.

This is the perfect application for Tender Quick. I would rather have them use a pre-bonded ready to use product and create a safe to eat product, rather than to guess because they have not purchased a scale yet. It is also a perfect starting point for someone who is unsure if they want to cure meats, and wishes to experiment with curing before making an investment in a scale they may never use again.

I also have several recipes that use Tender Quick in small amounts, not for curing, but to change the ph of the surface of the meat for a very short time in preparation for other processes.
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