Vision
is Blowin Smoke!
This could be interesting on breasts, but on thighs the texture wouldn't be good IMO.
Don't just take Harry's word for it. Here on are a bunch of references from the USDA that back him up.
http://thebbqcentralshow.com/harry-soos-chicken-method/
As hard as this is to believe Harry has it right. Most meat temp recommendations are also paired with times. The higher the temp the shorter the time it needs to be there. Since Harry is keeping his foul at 145 for a full ten minutes that will kill salmonella, and most other things. I will try to find the chart I saw once that explains this better than my coffee deprived brain can.
Alrighty folks... 'setcher lil hearts at ease - Most of the USDA's "blah, blah, blah" is designed so the that the average burger flipper can remember it -
Let me ask this question though, would you consider chicken kept at 137 for an hour to be:
A) Lethal - WTH are you trying to do to me man????
B) Just right! Bring it on, I'm hungry fo' that!
FDA says... Good to go! What???? AYFKM???!!!! (Are you freaking kidding me??)
Now, I'm not saying that the taste & texture will be what you want, but - technically, safe.
From USDA.gov - pages 5 - 16: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISNotices/RTE_Poultry_Tables.pdf
Times for given temperature, fat level, and species needed to obtain
7-log10 lethality of Salmonella*
------------------------------------ fat%=9 ------------------------------------
Temperature (
o
F) Time for Chicken Time for Turkey
136 74.8 min 67.6 min
137 59.7 min 55.3 min
138 47.7 min 45.4 min
139 38.3 min 37.3 min
140 30.8 min 30.8 min
141 24.9 min 25.5 min
142 20.1 min 21.1 min
143 16.3 min 17.4 min
144 13.2 min 14.4 min
145 10.7 min 11.9 min
146 8.6 min 9.8 min
147 6.9 min 8 min
148 5.5 min 6.5 min
149 4.3 min 5.2 min
150 3.3 min 4.1 min
151 2.5 min 3.2 min
152 1.8 min 2.4 min
153 1.4 min 1.9 min
154 1.1 min 1.5 min
155 51.4 sec 1.3 min
156 40.7 sec 1 min
157 32.2 sec 49.7 sec
158 25.4 sec 40.3 sec
159 20.1 sec 32.7 sec
160 15.9 sec 26.6 sec
161 12.6 sec 21.6 sec
162 10 sec 17.5 sec
163 <10.0 sec 14.2 sec
164 <10.0 sec 11.5 sec
165 <10.0 sec <10.0 sec
As stated earlier, the lethality of salmonella is a function of both temperature and time. This has been mentioned various times. Here is an old post by Knucklhed:
145 10.7 min 11.9 min
If you're cooking the chicken at fairly low temps, then you're probably not going to need to be resting that chicken very long. This definitely supports Harry Soo's chicken. It also suggests very strongly that most salmonella problems are due to cross-contamination, rather than cooking temps.
As Landarc mentions, the high cooking temperatures required for chicken are regional. They are the result of our high throughput chicken processing. In many other countries, chicken is cooked rare to medium rare. Bob mentions Asian countries, but it is also true of Slavic countries.
Just a clarification: When you hold, you have to hold it at 145 degrees. Holding does not mean you let it cool down for 5 minutes. I am more risk adverse so I hold it at 145 degrees for a full 10 minutes which is double the Juneja 2007 Study recommended time.
It's only a matter of time before he kills somebody salmonella don't die until 160.
Thanks, Gore... i was looking for that.
Actually, it goes against what harry says. He says in the comments at the BBQ Central site this...
Based on the chart that Knucklhed posted, the recommended time at 145 is 10.7 minutes.
But again, let's assume that chicken from a reliable, clean source is safe at that temp, and we as cooks are able to buy from a source like that. I still question the texture.
Harry is on to something. Here's the science behind his technique: At 140°F, a hold time of 35 minutes is necessary for chicken (with 12% fat) to be sufficiently pasteurized, and safe to eat. The leaner the chicken, the less time it has to be held. 1% fat requires 25 minutes at 140°F to be safe. Chicken heated to 155°F IT need only be held at that temp for 1 minute before it's "safe." Why then does the USDA suggest 165°F? One reason is that's the temp Salmonella dies a quick death. Another, it's a "keep it simple" solution that most people can adhere to. If your thermometer is off, or you pull it off a little early - say 160°F - you're still safe. I cook my chicken to 155-160°F and it's perfect.
I didn't see or hear what he said, but the study seems to back him up. I don't think we're all in agreement about a reliable, clean source of chicken. From all I've read, the local farm that kills and preps their chickens themselves have about a 1 in 10,000 shot of being contaminated by salmonella, yet any of the big manufacturers that you get in your local supermarket have about a 1 in 3 shot of being contaminated. Yet it is the former that are considered to be unsafe and unreliable and the latter that are considered safe. :crazy:
Where are those hold times coming from? The report that Gore linked above shows much lower times.
But, if we go with yours, they actually go against Harry's technique instead of showing that he is on to something. He's holding for significantly less than the 25 - 35 minute range that you indicate.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but there is a lot of data flying around in this thread and it needs to be backed up by a source.
Well, Harry got top spot as Champion in the Chicken category at the KCBS end of year results.
We can call BS on this all day long, but to pretend he doesn't know what's up is ludicrous.