For ALL KCBS Members

What a bunch of blown up BS. You want privacy live in a self contained silo with no outside communications. I voted for Gene and proud of it. Met him at Que by the Sea. One damn nice guy.

OK since it's Jorge, I need to break my "beat the dead horse rule"! LOL! Jorge, even at worst, I don't believe you can say he made a mistake. And we all know what his motivation was... to be re-elected. Can't blame him. Mike is right - one unsolicited email is not spam. I applaud Gene for going the extra mile to campaign for a seat he obviously cares about. Most candidates simply put their ad in the Bullsheet and answer the questionnaire and wonder why they aren't elected. It's a lot more work to have to hike to the top of a mountain than it is a mole hill.

Warthog said:

What a bunch of blown up BS. You want privacy live in a self contained silo with no outside communications. I voted for Gene and proud of it. Met him at Que by the Sea. One damn nice guy.

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I agree. This is way blown up. He's a Brethren brother for pete's sake. It's all about bbq. What the hell. This is crap I just shake my head at. :crazy:

OK, due to this thread I have a question. I have run 70 contest over the years and I believe short of the KCBS database I most likely have a rather large email list of teams and judges too. About 9000 of them. I built my database to let teams and judges know if there is a new contest in there area and tell them the apps are on my site to judge and cook the contest. Is is also wrong and or spam to email teams with this info?

Arlie

arlieque said:

OK, due to this thread I have a question. I have run 70 contest over the years and I believe short of the KCBS database I most likely have a rather large email list of teams and judges too. About 9000 of them. I built my database to let teams and judges know if there is a new contest in there area and tell them the apps are on my site to judge and cook the contest. Is is also wrong and or spam to email teams with this info?

Arlie

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Nah you are doing a service. Don't change because a few crybabies out of a few thousand needed something to bitch about.

so I assume you have already been doing this and have done it many times. any complaints?

As I seem to do more and more often I have a slightly different take than most, and I seem to walk both sides of the line.

I did not get the email from Gene, however I kinda wished I would have because it is involving something I care about very much in BBQ and I would have had the opportunity to learn more about another KCBS candidate that I didnt already know(I think). In my decision I mainly used what i read in the Bullsheet,this forum and a personal friendship but one more thing would not have bothered me at all.

Saying that though, while I dont think Gene did anything wrong and I have no reason not to take him at exactly what he says. I am concerned about whomever it is and more importantly HOW email addresses are gotten. Gene may have had no bad intentions but can we honestly say the next person that gets our email does not or the person after that?

I personally have to scan through my junk email daily, do I open all of them? No I dont but as an example I ordered some team shirts form a company that there was an article about in our Brethren e-zine and if i would not have checked my junk folder I would not have known the status of the order. I hit the thing saying it is safe but it is examples like that which make me scan through the junk emails. So any extra while may only take a minute or two or even seconds it is a bit bothersome.

We just went through Caucus time here and I can tell you that between my snail mailbox and anything on TV, There was one person I refused to vote for because i was so annoyed. Others may have thought it wasnt a big deal to them and I was making a mountain out of a mole hill, and all thats fine but this is how I FELT on the subject.

Oh and my least favorite phrase in the world right now "I am ------ and I approve this message" (brethren in Iowa and probably New Hampshire know what i am talking about)

Case Study #1: Sending out contest information to a BBQ team that gave you an email addy for that very purpose. (this is perfectly acceptable in my view)

Case Study #2: Farming email addys from a sanctioning body for the purpose of getting votes. (this is not okay)

So it's only us crybabies that see the difference?

Me thinks the ones that are barking the loudest in support of this practice are obviously supporters of the brother that executed such an ill conceived scheme.

It matters not, do what you will send out as many emails as you would like.

In the end the voters will decide, regardless of what is posted here.

By the way, I think there is some folks in here that could use to relax a bit.

:tsk:

Maybe get a drink, grab a cigar, take a deep breath.

Gene01 said:

I used contacts from my database in my own computer, (this means I have received an e-mail from them first) and from an organizer that I rep most of their contests, almost everyone who was contacted I have met with or coresponded with through e-mail.... there will be a few I am unsure about

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Just because you have "met" someone at a contest does not mean they should get an unsolicited email of a personal nature. If you wanted to send them correspondence in regards to the contest, such as a thank you for attending email, I have no problem with that. Sending emails to these people that benefit you personally is not cool.

Gene01 said:

I even sent many to people not involved in BBQ as most of this was sent from my regular contact list in Outlook.

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Why wouldn't you take the time to exclude the people "not involved in BBQ" in this mass mailing?? Sending a "vote for me" email to people that most likely couldn't vote for you if they wanted to, as well as people you don't have a personal relationship with (inspecting meat and answering competition questions does not necessarily qualify as a "personal relationship") is careless on your part. Some people could classify this carelessness as unsolicited or "spam" email.

I have to question the organizers of the event(s) that so easily and willingly gave you the contact information of it's particitpants. While there are no definitive rules regarding privacy of personal information, I believe there is a certain expectation that availability of said contact information is limited to organizers and sponsors of the event. Had you personally asked the competitors for their information, then most of this thread would not exist as I don't know how anyone could be upset about getting an email in that instance.

I personally would have just deleted any unsolicited email. But I certainly would have been sending the contest organizers an email and letting them know that I did not appreciate my contact information be given out for something not specifically related to that competition.

SirPorkaLot said:

Maybe get a drink, grab a cigar, take a deep breath.

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And fire up the smoker:clap2:

To be honest, I don't care that Gene sent me an email as it is BBQ related and the content was of interest to me. I have had an email account since 1985 and out of all the unsolicited emails I have received (way too numerous to count), I wasn't offended in the least bit. That being said, something just seems weird about me being on the list. You see, I have never entered a BBQ competition. There shouldn't be a single organizer that has my email from any application. The only thing I have done so far is to send an email to the address of person associated with the Wildwood NJ contest so that I can get on the list for this year in the event that the previous years competitors don't take all the spots and that was done very recently. Maybe that was how he received my address. My feeling though is that it was most likely received from KCBS as I do have an online account with them. Based on their loose privacy policy, I suspect that is the case. If it did come from KCBS, I am not sure how I feel about this but I did agree to their terms (not that I read them until after the fact).

Bottom line is that people feel differently about receiving unsolicited email. While it may not bother me all that much, I can certainly see how it may bother others and I see no problem with them voicing their displeasure/objection. What I would like to see is for KCBS to be be a little clearer with their privacy policy and to have a check box to allow people to opt out of having their information shared with anyone. While the policy says you can opt out, there isn't any check box that I saw to easily do that. Maybe that can be fixed. Maybe it was there when I signed up but I don't remember seeing it. I have also checked to if if there is a way I can elect to opt out through the site and I can't find one (and even if they did have one "I" would probably elect to receive the info).

Now while I am not stressed about this in the least, I think I will take SirPorkaLot's advice cause it just darn good advice no matter what the situation:-D

arlieque said:

OK, due to this thread I have a question. I have run 70 contest over the years and I believe short of the KCBS database I most likely have a rather large email list of teams and judges too. About 9000 of them. I built my database to let teams and judges know if there is a new contest in there area and tell them the apps are on my site to judge and cook the contest. Is is also wrong and or spam to email teams with this info?

Arlie

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With contest info? No. If I go to a contest, I usually look forward to news about other contest info in my area. But If you emailed me for another reason, I would not like it. For example, If you lived in my area and were running for a local office. Sorry, that's not why I gave you my email address.

Jeff_in_KC said:

OK guys, I'm not friends or anything with Gene but I'm going to defend him sending unsolicited emails. And nothing unethical happened, BJ. GEESH! The man collected emails and sent what's called a CAMPAIGN message out to a very targeted audience. If you don't want it, block him or just tell him politely to remove your name from his list. It's not spam until you tell him it is, at least not to him. In 2009, I sent out weekly emails to approximately 800 people I collected from various emails, etc. that I had saved over recent years. Occasionally, I'd get a message back from someone asking to be removed. I politely acknowledged their request and immediately removed them from the mailing lists. I created a dialogue with myself and anyone who asked questions in response. Very effective. And it almost worked. I went from being a "who the hell is that?" to someone recognized across the country and fell only 51 votes short. Just because you get an unsolicited email in your inbox doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Y'all are making it sound like a crime or an inconvenience.

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From:
http://spam.abuse.net/

You have probably seen an increase in the amount of "junk mail" which shows up in your email box, or on your favorite newsgroup. The activities of a small number of people are becoming a bigger problem for the Internet. We have been actively engaged in fighting spam for years. Since we presented this site to the public in 1996, we have been pleased to be referenced as one of the best anti-spam sites on the net. Help fight spam to keep the Internet useful for everyone. Take advantage of the information we've gathered to make your own experience on the Internet better.

Jeff_in_KC said:

OK guys, I'm not friends or anything with Gene but I'm going to defend him sending unsolicited emails. And nothing unethical happened, BJ. GEESH! The man collected emails and sent what's called a CAMPAIGN message out to a very targeted audience. If you don't want it, block him or just tell him politely to remove your name from his list. It's not spam until you tell him it is, at least not to him. In 2009, I sent out weekly emails to approximately 800 people I collected from various emails, etc. that I had saved over recent years. Occasionally, I'd get a message back from someone asking to be removed. I politely acknowledged their request and immediately removed them from the mailing lists. I created a dialogue with myself and anyone who asked questions in response. Very effective. And it almost worked. I went from being a "who the hell is that?" to someone recognized across the country and fell only 51 votes short. Just because you get an unsolicited email in your inbox doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Y'all are making it sound like a crime or an inconvenience.

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Time for education....
http://spam.abuse.net/overview/whatisspam.shtml

What is spam?

Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message, in an attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive it. Most spam is commercial advertising, often for dubious products, get-rich-quick schemes, or quasi-legal services. Spam costs the sender very little to send -- most of the costs are paid for by the recipient or the carriers rather than by the sender.

Jeff_in_KC said:

Honestly, I think you could make a case for a prior relationship in that Gene is a director on a board that represents the membership of KCBS. If you are a KCBS member, he's representing you I imagine it would be difficult to say in a court of law that there was no relationship.

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I would point out that he admitted that he got the email addresses from organizers and not KCBS, so therefore, in my book, he was not representing me as a director of any board... but as an individual requesting me to vote for him.... sorry, but still spam, and still lost my vote, and my wife's.....

Gene01 said:

I will post this here one time, I didn't try to get an advantage over any other candidate, I used contacts from my database in my own computer, (this means I have received an e-mail from them first) and from an organizer that I rep most of their contests, almost everyone who was contacted I have met with or coresponded with through e-mail.... there will be a few I am unsure about, most of the people who have stated that I did something underhanded to, i have an e-mail or personal knowledge of corespondence with, or have met them, I didn't go out and buy e-mail lists or get them from KCBS or look all over the internet for, i sent 2600 e-mails to those who either new me or as I said before had an in common e-mail or meeting of or with.....I hope that this clears it all up to everyone's satisfaction... I even sent many to people not involved in BBQ as most of this was sent from my regular contact list in Outlook.

I do have to say, I have a lot of respect for the others candidates running who could have slammed me on this, they were very professional and fair

Sorry if it has offended anyone....

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as far as I know, I am in NC, you in CA.... to the best of my knowledge, I have NEVER contacted you to drive 4000 miles just to compete.... make this a written PUBLIC notice to remove my email address from your database, you also have gotten an email from me questioning this and as of this date, have NEVER even acknowledge it..... from last year, or this year..... so what good does it to ask to have it removed every year????

kihrer said:

As a CIO of a college, I deal with spam issues frequently. We easily block 65% of our mail traffic as spam. But I am just curious - of those of you who were upset with receiving the email (I received it, too), how many would have been upset had that same message been delivered by snail mail?

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I for one, will contact them and ask them to please remove my name, address and any contact info from their mailing list. I do this constantly and on a regular basis EVERY time I receive one.

dmprantz said:

I did not receive this eMail, but I dislike all forms of junk mail, especially compaign junk-mail. I'm even one of those jerks who takes every piece of junk mail he gets with a "receiver pays shipping" return envelope and I send it back to them as heavy and bulky as I can make it. Usually I just rip up and return to them what they sent me.

As much as I hate junk mail though, I hate spam even more. I've tried to rationalize it myself, and the best reason I've come up with is that at least when something is sent via snail-mail, the sender has to pay for it. Sending junk in eMail wastes my time and is free.

You asked....

dmp

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YES.... way to go BROTHER.....
I too do this, and put others junk mail in theirs and send it to them... it called the switch and bait junk mail..... make sure you remove your contact info.... call them at their toll free number, take your time to make sure to run their bill up, then send them junk mail in return... pay back time.

smoke-n-my-i's said:

as far as I know, I am in NC, you in CA.... to the best of my knowledge, I have NEVER contacted you to drive 4000 miles just to compete.... make this a written PUBLIC notice to remove my email address from your database, you also have gotten an email from me questioning this and as of this date, have NEVER even acknowledge it..... from last year, or this year..... so what good does it to ask to have it removed every year????

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I have deleted you from my list, I didn't send you an e-mail to that effect as you did not want any e-mail from me.........

Gene01 said:

Just looked it up, it is Seaside heights NJ, I still rep that contest, it was myself and Murray Saltzman that repped one year that you were there and with Preston and myself the next.....looked it up on the results page of KCBS you were there 2 of the years that I was the rep.

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YEP... a rep of KCBS using paid members dues, and paid contestants, or judges using their own expenses.... so as a KCBS rep, in my book, the emails obtained we property of the organizer AND KCBS..... and obtained as a represenatative of KCBS..... I will drop it at that and not push the issue... shady business in my book.

Gene01 said:

Just as an FYI, one of the reasons that I sent out so many e-mails even to people that I think might already vote for me is to get more members out to vote and not just for myself, we have a process that is easy to use and is under utilized, I would like to see a larger turn out even if it hurts my overall success in the election.c

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again, here is his email.... where does it say he wants us to get out and vote????? All I see is his campaign to vote for him.....

I am running for the KCBS Board for another term and would appreciate your support

I want to be your voice in BBQ
I for the past 3 years have made it clear that you can call me on BBQ issues my number is (619) 600-8320, I am willing to discuss anything related to BBQ and KCBS
I eat, live and sleep BBQ, I was a competitor, I judge, I am a contest rep, I am also a judging instructor. I am retired and have the time to commit to my position on the board, I have nothing financial to gain, I am here to represent the membership as a whole
I currently am responsible for membership, membership is up 60% since I took on this duty 3 years ago.
I have an excellent voting record, I represent the membership.
I would appreciate your vote.
My phone number is: 619-600-8320
My e-mail is: ggoycochea@kcbs.us
Gene GoycocheaGENE GOYCOCHEA FOR KCBS BOARD OF DIRECTORS

Warthog said:

What a bunch of blown up BS. You want privacy live in a self contained silo with no outside communications. I voted for Gene and proud of it. Met him at Que by the Sea. One damn nice guy.

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privacy and respect are two different things.... I consider it lack of respect, simply because he used information from various sources to try and better his field of contact to ask for votes from people that did NOT ask for his information.... that is clearly classified as spam..... a mass emailing without prior consent.

Jaybird said:

I agree. This is way blown up. He's a Brethren brother for pete's sake. It's all about bbq. What the hell. This is crap I just shake my head at. :crazy:

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So, since I too am a member, my opinions and comments are ok.... and not crap.... kind of contradicting comment the way I see it.... as long as you are a Brethren, you can do what you want.... I like that philosophy..... makes it ok to be a criminal in your book... I will print that out and the next time I get stopped for speeding I will tell the law enforcement that you said since I am a Brethren, I have the right to do what I want....

arlieque said:

OK, due to this thread I have a question. I have run 70 contest over the years and I believe short of the KCBS database I most likely have a rather large email list of teams and judges too. About 9000 of them. I built my database to let teams and judges know if there is a new contest in there area and tell them the apps are on my site to judge and cook the contest. Is is also wrong and or spam to email teams with this info?

Arlie

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In my opinion, yes.... they have not asked for the info.... so if I am on the list, please remove it....

http://spam.abuse.net/overview/whatisspam.shtml
What is spam?

Spam is flooding the Internet with many copies of the same message, in an attempt to force the message on people who would not otherwise choose to receive it. Most spam is commercial advertising, often for dubious products, get-rich-quick schemes, or quasi-legal services. Spam costs the sender very little to send -- most of the costs are paid for by the recipient or the carriers rather than by the sender.

ok folks, I think I have voiced my opinion, and will get off my soapbox... you know my opinions, and I know yours.... it is respect and lack of...

the end.

It's was only about BBQ!!!!!!!! :doh:

Jaybird said:

It's was only about BBQ!!!!!!!! :doh:

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I think this has less to do with WHAT the email was about and is more about HOW the email came to be at this point.

You guys have lost your minds. Seriously! If you don't want an email from ANYONE, just reply to have yuour name removed. Those abuse junk sites are just a bunch of guys like the ones here who are upset who got together to try to make mountains out of mole hills and unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation out there as to what spam actually is. It's simple really - Gene is a board member seeking re-election. You (or at least most of you) who received his message are members of the same organization and as such you have a relationship with Gene and a reason to be expected to have an interest in such an email. The only question in this entire "drama" is where he got it. I've heard he got it from KCBS (which is highly doubtful). I've heard he got it from another member of the board (very possible) and we've heard he got it from collecting addresses over the years. The first two are the only way there's any transgression committed here by anyone. Good night.

Is winter over yet????