Hereford versus Angus etc. for Xmas dinner

[buccaneer]

Originally Posted by centexsmoker

right....but the word wagyu just means japanese cow. There is no such breed as Wagyu. There are no standards to call something wagyu (other than those created by the breeder associations).

I'm sure it's awesome beef. Ours is too. Just saying it's all marketing

"Wa-Gyu" just means cow in Japanese but it is a loan word in English now.
There are a half dozen Japanese breeds that are exceptional genes and those genes are raised in Australia ,Fujiyoshi or Shimane, Kedaka or Tottori, Tajima, we even raise the Korean influenced Japanese red lines like Kumamoto and Kochi.
Genetic testing is strict.
The point is moot about breeding percentages and names because Wa-Gyu owe a huge debt in their genes to European stock like Simmental and Ayrshire, something Australian breeders look for I have been told.
If you see Australian beef market "Wagyu" in the USA, you can trust you are buying a quality that Japanese are getting.
In fact, Japanese in high end restaurants are mostly eating Australian but are not being told about it

[centexsmoker]

Originally Posted by buccaneer

"Wagyu" just means cow in Japanese
There are a half dozen Japanese breeds that are exceptional genes and those genes are raised in Australia and "Wagyu" can only be used on genetically tested cattle from this selection.
So, it is't just marketing.
You cannot raise a mixed Hereford with one of these breeds and call it "Wagyu"here.
If you see Australian beef market "Wagyu" in the USa, you can trust you are buying a quality that Japanese are getting.
In fact, Japanese in high end restaurants are mostly eating it but are not being told about it

"You cannot raise a mixed Hereford with one of these breeds and call it "Wagyu"here."

I disagree but you live there and should know better than me.

Not looking for a dustup and I'll defer to your local knowledge

[captmoby]

Originally Posted by jasonjax

Wondering if some learned brethren might chime in on the differences between angus and hereford beef cattle.

I've gotten some amazingly good tenderloins from Fresh Market that were hereford, but I'm contemplating my Christmas cook of "prime rib" and deciding on where to source it from.

Wagyu and Kobe seem a bit expensive, but I'm considering that as well. I'd like it to be a real special meal this year.

The difference is that one is black and the other is red. And I would chalenge anybody to tell the difference when you take the skin off and cook it.

[Scubadoo97]

Originally Posted by jasonjax

Wondering if some learned brethren might chime in on the differences between angus and hereford beef cattle.

I've gotten some amazingly good tenderloins from Fresh Market that were hereford, but I'm contemplating my Christmas cook of "prime rib" and deciding on where to source it from.

Wagyu and Kobe seem a bit expensive, but I'm considering that as well. I'd like it to be a real special meal this year.

The Herford I've seen at Fresh Market has been incredibly lean. Like virtually no marbling. Not surprising since their typical shopper is fat adverse

[centexsmoker]

Originally Posted by Scubadoo97

The Herford I've seen at Fresh Market has been incredibly lean. Like virtually no marbling. Not surprising since their typical shopper is fat adverse

when I had the meat market, we did a CAB program and it was very dark and loaded with marbling. We had another guy come in and show their premium hereford and I noticed the same thing. It was kind of light pink and no marbling. It tasted good but looked bland in the case.

I don't know that they are that different in other cases but these 2 programs looked totally different. Both very good though but at you eat with your eyes first.........

I think in a restaurant (these were actually both restsaurant suppliers) you wouldn't notice the difference. But before they were cooked was a huge visual difference.

[captndan]

WHOW! CAB is not a grade of meat. It is a trademark of The Angus Breeders Association. Nothin more nothin less. Or American Angus Association if you want.

[centexsmoker]

Originally Posted by captndan

WHOW! CAB is not a grade of meat. It is a trademark of The Angus Breeders Association. Nothin more nothin less. Or American Angus Association if you want.

I might not have been paying attn but I didn't see anyone say CAB was a grade of meat.

You are correct it's a brand. that was the whole purpose of this thread. To say that brands mean nothing as far as the quality of the meat goes. It's just a way for big producers to get more money for certain meats or to segment distribution. We liked having a brand because it allowed us to be able to tell a story that the big supermarkets could not in our area. It's all how you market it. Worked for us.

[buccaneer]

Originally Posted by centexsmoker

"You cannot raise a mixed Hereford with one of these breeds and call it "Wagyu"here."

I disagree but you live there and should know better than me.

Not looking for a dustup and I'll defer to your local knowledge

I have no problem with a good robust discussion or disagreeing about an issue, and I love to find out when I am wrong.
My intention here is not to see harm done to the image or reputation of a product and industry falsely, and that is what I perceive to be happening.
The USA does not have legal restrictions and legislation on words like "Kobe beef" or "Wagyu" but we do.
I understand how you would be miffed at feeling hard done by, but it is unfair to paint someone else with the same brush when they are doing the hard yards and making a fine product.
Think about this.
The USA exports ZERO "Wagyu" beef to Japan.
Australia is the largest exporter of "Wagyu" beef to Japan and ships more than Japan produces, and ships to many other countries in Europe, Asia and The America's.

I think that alone would give you pause for consideration of your view, no?

[landarc]

Buccs, do you know why Australia was allowed to get full bred cattle from Japan, it was my understanding that Japan did not allow export of live cattle from Japan. Yet, I know that they did allow full bred cattle, of several breeds, to be exported and bred in Australia.

[buccaneer]

I don't Bob, but if I remember correctly it was in the mid 90's so it could have been a very good piece of Japanese business strategy because foot and mouth and Mad Cow disease issues were rife.
Our continent is the last, free of most of these diseases, that is why every flight here has enrages passengers when they learn that they can be arrested for bringing fruit or sausage or a product with an egg in it.
Customs checkpoints are pretty ugly here and in NZ!

[Pappy Q]

Cook both exactly the same and see if you can tell the difference.

[landarc]

I was just wondering, I thought maybe it had something to do with Macau, as that is the only place you can get Japanese Kobe other than Japan, and that was all about money. I do know Australia has crazy hard requirements for phytosanitation on plants and seeds coming on to Australia, bummer about the toads and rabbits though.

I knew a lot of gardeners that were always trying to sneak seeds in to gardeners all over OZ

[buccaneer]

Originally Posted by landarc

I was just wondering, I thought maybe it had something to do with Macau, as that is the only place you can get Japanese Kobe other than Japan, and that was all about money. I do know Australia has crazy hard requirements for phytosanitation on plants and seeds coming on to Australia, bummer about the toads and rabbits though.

I knew a lot of gardeners that were always trying to sneak seeds in to gardeners all over OZ

Yep, we are scoundrels rebelling at authority!
I'll bet it won't be long before Washington and Colorado are making some AUD, altho I know that is not what you meant...we can't even get chili seeds here in WA...well....we aren't supposed to...! ;)

If only the rabbits would chimp the toads, or the toads would ...oh...never mind...

[centexsmoker]

Originally Posted by buccaneer

I have no problem with a good robust discussion or disagreeing about an issue, and I love to find out when I am wrong.
My intention here is not to see harm the image or reputation of a product and industry falsely, and that is what I perceive to be happening.
The USA does not have legal restrictions and legislation on words like "Kobe beef" or "Wagyu" but we do.
I understand how you would be miffed at feeling hard done by, but it is unfair to paint someone else with the same brush when they are doing the hard yards and making a fine product.
Think about this.
The USA exports ZERO "Wagyu" beef to Japan.
Australia is the largest exporter of "Wagyu" beef to Japan and ships more than Japan produces, and ships to many other countries in Europe, Asia and The America's.

I think that alone would give you pause for consideration of your view, no?

I'm cool. I just thought you were getting frustrated by your emoticon so I figured we could just chat about something else. I don't really have a need to be right so I'm cool with whatever comes of this. I have plenty to learn on the subject and am glad to discuss.

As for your concern that some dude on a bbq forum is going to harm the image or reputation of a multi-billion dollar international industry, I think we are safe there. They will be fine and no harm to the industry was intended (good natured smart-assing)

I don't know anything about the local laws or regs there so I'll certainly defer to your local knowledge.

Here is what I based my info on: According to the landing page of the Australian Wagyu Association webpage, they crossbreed wagyu all the time and are openly marketing cross breeding programs. To me, that says that you can cross breed wagyu and still call it wagyu. It has to meet their standards but they wrote the standards so it can be anything they want. Fortunately, they seem to have very high standards and that is a good thing. But they are not just selling 100% wagyu as wagyu and they don't even clam too

It is probably more strict there but make no mistake who sets the regs and writes the standards. It's the AWA. That's their whole reason to exist.

[centexsmoker]

Originally Posted by landarc

Buccs, do you know why Australia was allowed to get full bred cattle from Japan, it was my understanding that Japan did not allow export of live cattle from Japan. Yet, I know that they did allow full bred cattle, of several breeds, to be exported and bred in Australia.

all of the original live Japanese Wagyu came via the US. Before anybody gets upset, this is from the Australian Wagyu Association...not me:


Wagyu in Australia
Australia received its first Wagyu genetics, a Wagyu female, in 1990. Frozen semen and embryos have been available since 1991 and there have been further imports of live purebreds.

The introduction of Wagyu cattle to Australia has been a costly, long-term project as there has been no protocol with Japan for direct imports. Initially, the Australian herd was greatly influenced by a shipment of five fullblood animals exported from Japan to the United States in 1993. These included the two bulls; Michifuku and Haruki II, and the three cows; Suzutani, Rikitani and Okutani.