Inconsistent Judging

smokincracker

smokincracker

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The judging was real inconsistent at this last contest in Lakeland.
Example:
My Brisket
989 / 655 / 868 / 866 / 999 / 666
For every turn-in box I have 6s and 9s for each sub-category it’s a damn conspiracy.
I have been doing this long enough now to know this sucks also since my boxes were real good.
The Brisket above was spectacular by the way!!

In comparison my score sheets from FBA contests are very consistent.
I spoke to a seasoned FBA judge and cook that took the KCBS judging class the night before and his comments to me painted a very bleak picture about what to expect. He was right!
I would love to see some more consistent judging at the next KCBS contest.
Sorry for the bi#@chin
Just pisses me off.
 
I feel your pain brother.....saw similar scoring at Bass Pro last year.....I took it personal....took me almost 6 weeks to shake it off....I kept questioning what i did wrong or different....pork and brisket had always been our strong suits...it wasn't what I did, I just hit bad tables........hope it's my last bad tables for awhile though!!:eek:
 
You had

Five 9's
Four 8's
Seven 6's
Two 5's

In taste you had 8-5-6-6-9-6

I'd say you just had a couple generous judges.
 
drbbq said:
You had

Five 9's
Four 8's
Seven 6's
Two 5's

In taste you had 8-5-6-6-9-6

I'd say you just had a couple generous judges.
Click to expand...


Always good to hear from the Bonesmoker!!!
Forgive me if I don't see your point in the same direction.
You always know how to make a guy feel loved.
 
I might have a little more feeling if you didn't try to make it an FBA vs KCBS thing. They really aren't very different.
 
Jimmy,
I can not help explain your particular scores.
Not my intent here and something I can not do.
And--not making excuses--"Just the facts" :lol:

But, here is what transpired with the Judges at LakeLand.
The Rep (Steve in this case) had 10 tables of judges. 100% Certified.
He first seperated any "signifigant others" to different tables.
He then identiifed Qualified Table Captains. I think (can not be sure) that all were KCBS Certified Table Captains. Mine was certified and he was outstanding and very professional.
He then identified all of the "first time KCBS" judges and had 11 of us to spread around. He placed one "first time KCBS" judge at 9 tables leaving one table with 2. That pair was me and another FBA Judge with some experience. She had LOTS of experience in the FBA.

All this means is that Steve tried to make the playing field as level as possible. And, he did it very well in my opinion.

From that, who knows why judges would be varying that much, except that they are people. We will never get around that! Sure wish we could.

I will not compare FBA and KCBS judging other than to say the switch is easy and just a matter of some procedural differences. My particular table at LakeLand appeared to be "reletively consistant" based on our great discussions after each round of Judging.
I saw no "wild cards" in my little 10% of the Judges.
The other 90%??? I was not there.

Sorry it did not work out for you, but Steve did his best to level it out.

TIM

ps--Have your knees recovered from the vending experience? :lol:
 
The_Kapn said:
Sorry it did not work out for you, but Steve did his best to level it out.
Click to expand...

Tim,
Thank you for the detail on how the judging room appears to have been as most "even" as possible.

We've read numerous contest results with competitors saying "WTF?", but to see that a judges room has been evened out as much as possible is really good news.

I wonder what other "balancing" has taken place at other contests some of the Brothers have judged. Sorry, might be another thread topic
 
The_Kapn said:
Mine was certified and he was outstanding and very professional.
Click to expand...

Hey Tim,
Nice to have you at the table. Thanks for the kind words. I do try....

Mark D.
QN
 
QN said:
Hey Tim,
Nice to have you at the table. Thanks for the kind words. I do try....

Mark D.
QN
Click to expand...

"He He"--I drew a "lurker" out :lol:
Fine gentleman here folks.
He just hangs around more than he posts.
A real professional Master Judge, Table Captain, and part time cook IMHO.

TIM
 
Last edited:
I want to say something. I want it to be positive. I've been sitting at my computer for a few minutes, but nothing comes. Brisket was your best category.

I'd love for you to expand on how that individual explained the "very bleak future" idea. I don't know much, but I know this; folks dislike change. Folks resist change. Someday I'd like to share with you the reaction I saw to a set of scores the first time a long established team cooked an ABA event. Wow, that was something. The KCBS system is different than the FBA system, even if only slightly.

Five of the top ten teams at this contest were also top ten teams of the year in 2005, and the other five weren't there.
 
I agree with what others have said on the other forum you posted this question. If your product was overly spicy or sweet or bland, you may have two judges who loved their BBQ presented that way. The other judges must not have liked it. I think you have to cook toward's the middle to be successful. We've all had scores high and low on the same scorecard, It's a fact of life when you get 6 people trying to agree on anything.
 
LostNation said:
I agree with what others have said on the other forum you posted this question. If your product was overly spicy or sweet or bland, you may have two judges who loved their BBQ presented that way. The other judges must not have liked it. I think you have to cook toward's the middle to be successful. We've all had scores high and low on the same scorecard, It's a fact of life when you get 6 people trying to agree on anything.
Click to expand...

Good ideas
perhaps the middle of the road was where I needed to me.
Thanks for your comments.
 
drbbq said:
I might have a little more feeling if you didn't try to make it an FBA vs KCBS thing. They really aren't very different.
Click to expand...

Ray
I have cooked in 13 FBA contests on only 4 KCBS.
I was speaking from the limited experience I have developed so far.
As I said all my scores were all over the board and my cooking style has not changed and this was a first for me. This is the first time I have seen such overwhelming inconsistent scores.

I am in no way an FBA baby so don't put me in that category. Climb off your KCBS horse and relax. I cook a lot of FBA contests due to locality and convenience. This is just a hobbies for me not a political assignment. Thanks for your comments I'm not beyond self-examination.

666s or 999s / 999s or 666s
Anyway you look at it its inconsistent.
I realize to you it makes sense that the 999s are out of line. Right!

Congrats on your excellent overall finish in your home town.

Jimmy
 
The_Kapn said:
Jimmy,
I can not help explain your particular scores.
Not my intent here and something I can not do.
And--not making excuses--"Just the facts" :lol:

Thanks Tim
I'll chauk it up as a fluke and move on...
good post!!


ps--Have your knees recovered from the vending experience? :lol:
Click to expand...
Sure they feel ok this morning
 
Jimmy,
I don't think I'm reading it wrong that you were saying that your FBA scores are always consistent while the FBA judge painted a bleak picture of KCBS judging and your scores were bad.

I've been there 100 times when my scores weren't what I had hoped for. Matter of fact it happened a couple weeks ago in your hometown at an FBA contest. I congratulated everyone and went on my way. I could have accused the FBA judges of not knowing what good BBQ was, but that would be a sore loser in my book.

I think that probably two judges liked your food and four thought it was average. I find that to be very possible. People like different things and that's why we use six judges and throw the lowest one out.

As a cook I feel it's my job to get all the judges to like my food, not the sanctioning bodies.
 
Jimmy
I hope if I ever break out and get to start competing I have the class and ability you show! It was a pleasure to meet you and listen to you and others talk BBQ and I learnd a lot from all of you. Keep your head up and you day will come it may be a hobby but I know just how hard you work at it and how much it means to you. No one not even Dr. BBQ can answer the question nor can they say if the beast (666) only got a piece of fat and 999 got the best piece of brisket ever delivered to man. In you heart you know what you turned in and how it rated in your ability. Keep on smoken one day I will sneek up behind you but for now Thanks You for the time and effort you spent with me in Key Largo!
 
drbbq said:
Jimmy,
I don't think I'm reading it wrong that you were saying that your FBA scores are always consistent while the FBA judge painted a bleak picture of KCBS judging and your scores were bad.

I've been there 100 times when my scores weren't what I had hoped for. Matter of fact it happened a couple weeks ago in your hometown at an FBA contest. I congratulated everyone and went on my way. I could have accused the FBA judges of not knowing what good BBQ was, but that would be a sore loser in my book.

I think that probably two judges liked your food and four thought it was average. I find that to be very possible. People like different things and that's why we use six judges and throw the lowest one out.

As a cook I feel it's my job to get all the judges to like my food, not the sanctioning bodies.
Click to expand...

All good points...
Perhaps it’s more of the same cooks and same judges week after week that make the FBA judges more consistent. Perhaps? Thanks for all your ideas.
See you in Wauchula!
 
CharlieBeasley said:
Jimmy
I hope if I ever break out and get to start competing I have the class and ability you show! It was a pleasure to meet you and listen to you and others talk BBQ and I learnd a lot from all of you. Keep your head up and you day will come it may be a hobby but I know just how hard you work at it and how much it means to you. No one not even Dr. BBQ can answer the question nor can they say if the beast (666) only got a piece of fat and 999 got the best piece of brisket ever delivered to man. In you heart you know what you turned in and how it rated in your ability. Keep on smoken one day I will sneek up behind you but for now Thanks You for the time and effort you spent with me in Key Largo!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the words bro
You can cook with me anytime.
 
smokincracker said:
All good points...
Perhaps it’s more of the same cooks and same judges week after week that make the FBA judges more consistent. Perhaps? Thanks for all your ideas.
See you in Wauchula!
Click to expand...

I think that is probably true. I call it inbreeding and it's not exclusive to the FBA.
I also think when you attend a contest like Lakeland you throw a dozen top flight cooks in to the mix that don't regularly cook in Florida, and another dozen bad cooks. That means another couple dozen judges that have to come from somewhere and a much wider array of entries coming their way.

See you Friday.
 
drbbq said:
.
I also think when you attend a contest like Lakeland you throw a dozen top flight cooks in to the mix that don't regularly cook in Florida, and another dozen bad cooks. That means another couple dozen judges that have to come from somewhere and a much wider array of entries coming their way.
Click to expand...

I like this comment.
Also, this event may have pulled KCBS judges from as many as 7 or more states....I know we cooked one last year that had judges from 11 states....
 
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