Marking / Sculpting of entries?

Should this entry have been DQ's?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 16.7%

  • No

    Votes: 35 48.6%

  • No but talk to the team after turn-ins

    Votes: 25 34.7%
  • Total voters
    72
Slamdunkpro

Slamdunkpro

Babbling Farker
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
3,441
Reaction score
2...
Points
0
Location
Northern VA
Had a box come to our table that had 6 of the following: a medallion of money muscle with a ball of pulled pork perched on top topped by a shredded piece of a tube muscle. At first we though the ball in the middle was stuffing so we called the KCBS Rep over. They took the box, came back in a couple of minutes and told us that the ball wasn't stuffing yet they were DQ'ing the team for marking. Quite a bit of discussion ensued at the table after all the entries were judged as to whether this was a marked box or just very creative.

How do you define marking / sculpting
 
I say no. To be honest, it almost sounds like our box, but then we scored pretty dog-gone low anyway.

The whole marking / sculpting is too subjective IMO anyway the way the rules are written and presented.

I have seen many boxes that were very close to what you describe and did not think any different. Just the team being creative. No one else at the tables I have judged thought different as well.

Maybe the whole marking / sculpting idea should have more defined wording. I think the team got a bum deal.

If I turn in a box with the bottom layered with chopped pork (to keep the box warm) and then money muscle and pulled pork on top, with parsley round the edge and maybe in between the pieces, is that legal?

The weight of the box alone could give away who it came from. But yet, I have seen boxes like this and nobody questions even with Master CBJ at the table.

wallace
 
It seems to me that it was not marked. Now, almost all chicken and rib turnins are sculpted already, and pork is often arranged, not sure if that means sculpted or not. I say it should have been allowed.
 
so let's say i use a 2 inch round metal cookie cutter to keep my pulled pork in nice little circles. IT's not technically "marking or Sculpting" but it could be argued. To me it's a very vague rule that needs to be further clarified. Marking each piece of pork with a filet knife with the letter's EMS....now that's marking.
 
I personally think that it needs to be defined more in some way but then you get in the area of over regulation. The was one entry a few years ago that came across my table that the rep said wasn't sculpturing but it had to be awfully close. The pork box was made up in the form of rings like a bullseye target. While it's creative it was very close to me as being marking/sculpturing but I was a new judge at the time so maybe I overreacted.

As to your entry, I don't feel that it was as in my judges class they had a pork box where they put 6 scoops of pulled pork & I would consider your box something along those lines. It definitely pushes the boundries so until they define them better there'll be test cases & then once they set them someone I'm sure will push them out further & further.
 
i'd have to reread, but i thought the rule was written as sculpting or marking in a manner to identify the team it came from.

so, no.

however, maybe the rep, table captain, etc. had seen the box before and knew, thus a kneejerk, but that's not the cooks fault.

i think there's a good number of unique presentations that one may recognize coming across a table. hell, i've posted my boxes here, so judges could certaibly identify me.
 
i voted no.


kcbs rules said:
9) Meat shall not be sculptured, branded or presented in a
way to make it identifiable. Rosettes of meat slices are not
allowed. Violations of this rule will be scored a one (1) on all
criteria by all six judges.

15) The container shall not be marked in any way so as to
make the container unique or identifiable. Aluminum foil,
toothpicks, skewers, foreign material, and/or stuffing are
prohibited in the container. Marked entries or containers with
the above listed material will receive a one (1) in all criteria
from all Judges.
Click to expand...


i cant see how a unique presentations is sculpting. There are plenty of 'signature' presentations out there. To DQ what you described is akin to DQ'in chicken lollipops. If that were the case, one can argue that turning in a box consistently and specifically with "12 Burnt ends" would be sculpting... and lets see how that one sticks.
 
I have always felt that all the trimming, scraping etc...of chicken is nuts and over the top. Let chicken be chicken.
 
Mike- thanks for bringing this up. I thought it was freakin' genius! It was a beautiful box. You know from our discussions that I disagreed when this happened.
 
I can see how based on your description that the box could be deemed to have been "presented in a way to make it identifiable" and how the meat was determined to be sculpted.

early mornin' smokin' said:
so let's say i use a 2 inch round metal cookie cutter to keep my pulled pork in nice little circles. IT's not technically "marking or Sculpting" but it could be argued.
Click to expand...

It's not? I would think that is exactly what sculpting is.
 
No. Could you ID the team turning it in by looking at the box? If not then it's not marking IMO. Did they sculpt little pigs or similar? If not then it's not sculpting. Based on the OP only, it doesn't sound like it met the criteria IMO. Of course I'm not a rep so take it FWIW.
 
Problem is that a lot of teams are posting pictures of their boxes. When these teams have a unique presentation then it becomes easier to identify a given team's submission, especially in areas of the country where there's a lot of judge overlap between contests.
 
While having only judged two comps and have been a cbj since August, in our class it was made pretty clear that sculpting would be obvious, not just unique presentation. Examples given were shaping into identifiable objects such as a horse, pig, other animal. Basic shapes were said to be okay. The most extreme example given was someone using a variety of sauces in different colors to "paint" a sunset of sauce on the meat.
 
cds9333 said:
While having only judged two comps and have been a cbj since August, in our class it was made pretty clear that sculpting would be obvious, not just unique presentation. Examples given were shaping into identifiable objects such as a horse, pig, other animal. Basic shapes were said to be okay. The most extreme example given was someone using a variety of sauces in different colors to "paint" a sunset of sauce on the meat.
Click to expand...

i don't see a problem with a sunset either unless the team is "sunset BBQ".
 
I vote no on the marking issue. It is my position, the box was done for as soon as it was questioned and removed. I believe when a box leaves the table and or and is taken back to the cook for explanation, even if the Rep eventually determines the submission is legal, it will never score well, lets call it "tainted." (just my opinion) Although, in this case, a low score would have been better than no score or DQ.
 
I think it would probably count as a marking under the strictest interpretation of the KCBS rules. However, this begs the question of why we even have a presentation score anyway?
 
roksmith, you're right. But that's semantics for most judges. When I'm told by a judge they score down if you have a row of 4 ribs on top of another four ribs because it's obvious to them "you're trying to hide something," it begs the question if it's presentation or appearance.

And this is not a bitching about the judges statement, it's a reality. I actually heard that from another judge when I was judging a contest.
 
I would have been totally PO'ed had I been DQ'ed for this because I almost did that exact same thing once and asked a rep beforehand if it was okay and they answered "yes." My wife gave me the idea after I asked her to come up with an appealing presentation. I can't remember if it was KCBS or FBA, though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

motoeric
Bbq story
Replies
14
Views
1K
oldgfbbq
O
B
First SCA (Steak) Cookoff Thoughts
Replies
12
Views
2K
Hoss
H
O
Dissecting a Master Judge 'Cook with a Team' Requirement
Replies
7
Views
970
backdraftbbq
backdraftbbq
R
Spit Roaster build, PRON!
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
Reosed
R
masque13
it was the best of times....it was the worst of times!
Replies
10
Views
502
masque13
masque13
Back
Top