Taste/Texture: Hard To Separate The Two???

I am also a firm believer in the taste / tenderness link. Our best taste scores come when our tenderness is spot on and vice versa. I believe that the top teams in competition bbq know how to cook meat to the proper tenderness consistently w/o offending flavor profiles.

Yes, separate. Absolutely. And much more than just bite and try to tell. MBN we're
taught to touch it, squeeze it between your fingers, pull it, etc. Then bite it and chew before scoring tenderness.
I've had PLENTY that had great tenderness with a not so great flavor, and I've had a few that had great
flavor but were tough or just mushy...

I'm not a judge, but I think from my experience, that texture and taste can and does effect each other.. both together make a synergistic effect on how well your taste and tenderness scores are. Having said that, I think flavor stands out a bit more.

From the all definitive Wikipedia...some additional sensations shown to be detected by the tongue other than the standard 5 flavors (sweet, salty, sour, bitter, umami)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste#Further_sensations

Further sensations

The tongue can also feel other sensations, not generally included in the basic tastes. These are largely detected by the somatosensory system.

Fattiness
Recent research has revealed a potential taste receptor called the CD36 receptor to be reacting to fat, to be more specific, fatty acids.[51] This receptor was found in mice, but - it is presumed - exists among other mammals as well. In experiments, mice with a genetic defect that blocked this receptor did not show the same urge to consume fatty acids as normal mice, and failed to prepare gastric juices in their digestive tracts to digest fat. This discovery may lead to a better understanding of the biochemical reasons behind this behaviour, although more research is still necessary to confirm the relationship between CD36 and the perception of fat.

Calcium
In 2008, geneticists discovered a CaSR calcium receptor on the tongues of mice. The CaSR receptor is commonly found in the gastrointestinal tract, kidneys, and brain. Along with the "sweet" T1R3 receptor, the CaSR receptor can detect calcium as a taste. Whether closely related genes in mice and humans means the phenomenon may exist in humans as well is unknown.[52][53]

Dryness
Some foods, such as unripe fruits, contain tannins or calcium oxalate that cause an astringent or rough sensation of the mucous membrane of the mouth or the teeth. Examples include tea, red wine, rhubarb, and unripe persimmons and bananas.
Less exact terms for the astringent sensation are "dry", "rough", "harsh" (especially for wine), "tart" (normally referring to sourness), "rubbery", "hard" or "styptic".[54]
In the Indian tradition, one of the 6 tastes [55] is astringency (Kasaaya in Sanskrit, the other five being sweet, sour, salty, bitter, and hot/pungent).
In wine terms, "dry" is the opposite of "sweet," and does not refer to astringency. Wines that contain tannins and that cause astringent sensations in the mouth are not necessarily classified as "dry," and "dry" wines are not necessarily astringent.

Spiciness
Main articles: Piquance and Scoville scale
Substances such as ethanol and capsaicin cause a burning sensation called piquance, spiciness, hotness, or prickliness by inducing a trigeminal nerve reaction together with normal taste reception. The sensation of heat is caused by the food's activating nerves that express TRPV1 and TRPA1 receptors. Two main plant-derived compounds that provide this sensation are capsaicin from chili peppers and piperine from black pepper. The piquant ("hot" or "spicy") sensation provided by chili peppers, black pepper, and other spices like ginger and horseradish plays an important role in a diverse range of cuisines across the world—especially in equatorial and sub-tropical climates, such as Ethiopian, Peruvian, Hungarian, Indian, Korean, Indonesian, Lao, Malaysian, Mexican, Southwest Chinese (including Szechuan cuisine), and Thai cuisines.
If tissue in the oral cavity has been damaged or sensitized, ethanol may be experienced as pain rather than simply heat. Those having had radiotherapy for oral cancer, thus, find it painful to drink alcohol.[citation needed]
This particular sensation is not a taste in the technical sense, because a different set of nerves carry it to the brain. Though foods like chili peppers also activate nerves, the sensation interpreted as "hot" results from the stimulation of somatosensory (pain/temperature) fibers on the tongue. Many parts of the body with exposed membranes but without taste sensors (such as the nasal cavity, under the fingernails, or a wound) produce a similar sensation of heat when exposed to hotness agents. In Asian countries within the sphere of mainly Chinese, Indian, and Japanese cultural influence, Piquance has traditionally been considered a sixth basic taste.

Coolness
Some substances activate cold trigeminal receptors. One can sense a cool sensation (also known as "fresh" or "minty") from, e.g., spearmint, menthol, ethanol, and camphor, which is caused by the food's activating the TRPM8 ion channel on nerve cells that also signal cold. Unlike the actual change in temperature described for sugar substitutes, coolness is only a perceived phenomenon.

Numbness
Both Chinese and Batak Toba cooking include the idea of 麻 má, or mati rasa the sensation of tingling numbness caused by spices such as Sichuan pepper. The cuisine of Sichuan province in China and of North Sumatra province in Indonesia, often combines this with chili pepper to produce a 麻辣 málà, "numbing-and-hot", or "mati rasa" flavor.[56]
Heartiness (Kokumi)
Some Japanese researchers refer to the kokumi in foods laden with alcohol- and thiol-groups in their amino acid extracts, which has been described variously as continuity, mouthfulness, mouthfeel, and thickness.

Temperature
Temperature is an essential element of human taste experience. Food and drink that — within a given culture — is considered to be properly served hot is often considered distasteful if cold, and vice versa.

As a brand-new judge I can say we were taught to treat them separately.

I agree with most of these comments - they are separate attributes and I can easily separate the two. I always score tenderness first before focusing on the flavors.

Good question -

Let me start out with saying I am not a judge. But taste and tenderness are on total opposite ends of the spectrum. Taste's whether they be sweet, savory, spicy, or a combination stand out, something may have the right taste, but you might have missed on the tenderness aspect. Whether it be overdone or underdone, mushy or just right. I see no real comparison between the 2.

The OP asked about "texture". Several responses are about "tenderness".

Not interchangeable terms in my opinion.

Surprised no one has said this already, Take the judges class and become certified.

That will eliminate some of your guesswork. The rules and instructions will tell you of the specifics of what CBJs are taught to look for, KCBS standards.

I do judge both separately although in either order if a characteristic of one or the other is front and center in the bite I take.

Yes, linked. But separate.

Take the CBJ class, you will not be sorry.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke said:

The OP asked about "texture". Several responses are about "tenderness".

Not interchangeable terms in my opinion.

Click to expand...

That's an excellent thought.

I believe that any problem with texture (mushiness, for example) is taught to be scored as part of the tenderness attribute.

I definitely understand what you're saying here - but when judging I take texture into consideration when scoring tenderness.

I agree with Carlyle. Take the KCBS CBJ class. The knowledge gained there is very valuable.

We are instructed to evaluate and judge the separately, but it takes some discipline to do so since one can definitely impact the other. The brisket pull test is a classic tenderness test that was gone over in my class as was the rib and chicken bite test. Pork is a bit tougher to gauge, but you will see a lot of judges squeezing the pulled chunks and MM slices before tasting.