Got to admire your devotion Dave, way to stick with it:clap: . And remember there is nothing wrong with finishing in the oven or a gas grill, we've all done it.
-
working on DNS.. links may break temporarily.
Smoking plateau - 6# - 13.5 hrs (so far)
- Thread starter DaveMW
- Start date
OL' Timer
Knows what a fatty is.
What I will say is the meat was in the danger zone for way to many hours and not safe to eat according to HACCP guide lines. Since my products are eaten by the public it would go in the trash can. I can find it for you but its been posted here many times. Its not worth getting sick over a hunk of meat, but that is your prerogative. Anyone who is HACCP certified will tell you this. It's kinda like playing Russian roulette, sooner or later it will get you IMHO. check out this thread http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101550
DaveMW
is Blowin Smoke!
The Pork Butt in question is below. Still not sure I will risk eating it. I let it cool and then put it in the fridge a little after 11PM last night & that is where it still is. I have to tell you, I am hesitant to eat it but, it will kill me to toss out all that meat (and waste money). This was an epic failure. Next time I will smoke at a higher temp. I'm disppointed at my first smoking failure even if this was only my third smoke ever.
Attachments
smoke-n-my-i's
is Blowin Smoke!
I have to admit, I too have thrown away many pieces of meat.... better to be safe than sorry.
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Unless you paid $10 per pound, throw it away. Seriously, it really sounds to me like
the actual surface temperature was somewhere around 180. At 250 surface temp that
should've been done done done at 7 hours, but probably done at 5.5 to 6 hours. That's
a very small butt. Looking at it, it's only now starting to pull away from the bone. The
fat has quite a bit more to go to get fully rendered. You've probably had too much time
under 145, so it's dangerous to eat it.
I've thrown away over $100 of meat at one time. I fell asleep and let the cook temp
drop to 100... 2 large fresh hams and 2 butts; gone.
the actual surface temperature was somewhere around 180. At 250 surface temp that
should've been done done done at 7 hours, but probably done at 5.5 to 6 hours. That's
a very small butt. Looking at it, it's only now starting to pull away from the bone. The
fat has quite a bit more to go to get fully rendered. You've probably had too much time
under 145, so it's dangerous to eat it.
I've thrown away over $100 of meat at one time. I fell asleep and let the cook temp
drop to 100... 2 large fresh hams and 2 butts; gone.
Cook
Babbling Farker
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,698
- Reaction score
- 1,714
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 50
This was a long cook.
Last edited:
Cook
Babbling Farker
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,698
- Reaction score
- 1,714
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 50
If you don't mind, could you post those HACCP guidelines? Thanks, I'd love to hear what HACCP has to say.
blackdog043
is one Smokin' Farker
Quote:
Originally Posted by OL' Timer
What I will say is the meat was in the danger zone for way to many hours and not safe to eat according to HACCP guide lines...Anyone who is HACCP certified will tell you this.
I'd like to see what there cooking guide lines are also. Not the safe handling before and after cooking. USDA told me all is good as long as the cooker is 225* or greater during the cook, no matter how long it takes. If nobody comes thru I mave have to email HACCP to see what there advice is compared to the UDSA info I received.
Originally Posted by OL' Timer
What I will say is the meat was in the danger zone for way to many hours and not safe to eat according to HACCP guide lines...Anyone who is HACCP certified will tell you this.
I'd like to see what there cooking guide lines are also. Not the safe handling before and after cooking. USDA told me all is good as long as the cooker is 225* or greater during the cook, no matter how long it takes. If nobody comes thru I mave have to email HACCP to see what there advice is compared to the UDSA info I received.
Last edited:
Cook
Babbling Farker
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,698
- Reaction score
- 1,714
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OL' Timer
What I will say is the meat was in the danger zone for way to many hours and not safe to eat according to HACCP guide lines...Anyone who is HACCP certified will tell you this.
I'd like to see what there cooking guide lines are also. Not the safe handling before and after cooking. USDA told me all is good as long as the cooker is 225* or greater during the cook, no matter how long it takes. If nobody comes thru I mave have to email HACCP to see what there advice is compared to the UDSA info I received.
I think the cat has their tongue.
:icon_shy
:tape:
:crazy:
Every individual who establishes a HACCP plan makes their own guidelines (to an extent). HACCP is a method of record keeping that helps you monitor critical controls (abbreviated explanation).
Smoothsmoke
Babbling Farker
I'm HACCP certified. However I deal only with seafood. Seafood guidelines differ vastly from beef/pork products. We set our own critical control limits/points, however, we do so using the guidelines established by the FDA.
I see that the meat in question is thought to be in a danger zone, however one must ask. Can this harmful bacteria thrive in a 225F ambient temperature cooker? According to the USDA official, no. I'm not sure if the harmful bacteria that affect beef/pork have any time vs temperature issues as does seafood eg scombrotoxin poison. According to the USDA official, no, because he said it does not matter how long it takes as long as it's 225F in the cooker. Interesting to say the least. :thumb:
I see that the meat in question is thought to be in a danger zone, however one must ask. Can this harmful bacteria thrive in a 225F ambient temperature cooker? According to the USDA official, no. I'm not sure if the harmful bacteria that affect beef/pork have any time vs temperature issues as does seafood eg scombrotoxin poison. According to the USDA official, no, because he said it does not matter how long it takes as long as it's 225F in the cooker. Interesting to say the least. :thumb:
JazzyBadger
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Lmao I'm laughing so farking hard right now.
I'm not HACCP certified but I've been a General Manager at most Pepsico/Yum INC fast food stores A&W Burger excluded, and I can honestly say after those 12 years of Hell I'd take my chances with any kind of meat stuck in a grill that's been at 225 degrees any day of the week before I went and bought any kind of anything from any kind of fast food restaurant/pizza chain.
That's a whole level of trust I'm just not willing to give to the random throng of people behind those counters these days. No sir.
My vote? Tombstone Pizzas!
I'm not HACCP certified but I've been a General Manager at most Pepsico/Yum INC fast food stores A&W Burger excluded, and I can honestly say after those 12 years of Hell I'd take my chances with any kind of meat stuck in a grill that's been at 225 degrees any day of the week before I went and bought any kind of anything from any kind of fast food restaurant/pizza chain.
That's a whole level of trust I'm just not willing to give to the random throng of people behind those counters these days. No sir.
My vote? Tombstone Pizzas!
Cook
Babbling Farker
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,698
- Reaction score
- 1,714
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 50
So your Yum! Brand stores did not have a HACCP plan in place or was it just not enforced?
JazzyBadger
Quintessential Chatty Farker
I wasn't affiliated with Yum! After my time.
As far as I can remember there was no such plan in place. I remember the MSDS and Servsafe, but this was well over a decade and I'm out of that business so for all I knew there was one and it completely slipped my mind.
I can tell you this much, most of the plans in place are NEVER enforced, at least in any of the franchise/corporate stores I was involved in. The MSDS was a joke, nobody had any idea what to do with anything. I tried setting up a paid for day to actually teach people what did what and why you don't use degreaser on the farking pizza pans, my DM freaked at me, hours hours hours, can't blow labor, and come pay day I'm having people sign the MSDS "training sheet" for their checks.
Really turned me off the whole going out to eat.. anywhere.
As far as I can remember there was no such plan in place. I remember the MSDS and Servsafe, but this was well over a decade and I'm out of that business so for all I knew there was one and it completely slipped my mind.
I can tell you this much, most of the plans in place are NEVER enforced, at least in any of the franchise/corporate stores I was involved in. The MSDS was a joke, nobody had any idea what to do with anything. I tried setting up a paid for day to actually teach people what did what and why you don't use degreaser on the farking pizza pans, my DM freaked at me, hours hours hours, can't blow labor, and come pay day I'm having people sign the MSDS "training sheet" for their checks.
Really turned me off the whole going out to eat.. anywhere.
D
Dave Russell
Guest
I don't see how this is even remotely possible, assuming the smoker maintained a cooking temp (of even as low as 200* F, give or take). I'd sure like to know what the deal was, though.
jestridge
somebody shut me the fark up.
What type of smoker ?? It also been windy today that will hurt a cook. Next time try cooking around 275 -300. BTW some of the people telling you not to eat ,it will eat a raw steak at 135 degree so go figure.
FltEng
Knows what a fatty is.
I also have agrate level thermo (also brand new) that states 225 degree temps too.
If your grate level thermometer is now saying 225 and the other thermometer is now saying 300; for the last 13+ hours you have not been at even 200 degrees at the grate level.
blackdog043
is one Smokin' Farker
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdog043
Quote:
Originally Posted by OL' Timer
What I will say is the meat was in the danger zone for way to many hours and not safe to eat according to HACCP guide lines...Anyone who is HACCP certified will tell you this.
I'd like to see what there cooking guide lines are also. Not the safe handling before and after cooking. USDA told me all is good as long as the cooker is 225* or greater during the cook, no matter how long it takes. If nobody comes thru I mave have to email HACCP to see what there advice is compared to the UDSA info I received.
I think the cat has their tongue.
:icon_shy
:tape:
:crazy:
Every individual who establishes a HACCP plan makes their own guidelines (to an extent). HACCP is a method of record keeping that helps you monitor critical controls (abbreviated explanation).
HAHA Thanks Cook
I guess nobody has any guidelines in writing from HACCP, I'll go by the USDA guidelines, that I have in writing.
Originally Posted by blackdog043
Quote:
Originally Posted by OL' Timer
What I will say is the meat was in the danger zone for way to many hours and not safe to eat according to HACCP guide lines...Anyone who is HACCP certified will tell you this.
I'd like to see what there cooking guide lines are also. Not the safe handling before and after cooking. USDA told me all is good as long as the cooker is 225* or greater during the cook, no matter how long it takes. If nobody comes thru I mave have to email HACCP to see what there advice is compared to the UDSA info I received.
I think the cat has their tongue.
:icon_shy
:tape:
:crazy:
Every individual who establishes a HACCP plan makes their own guidelines (to an extent). HACCP is a method of record keeping that helps you monitor critical controls (abbreviated explanation).
HAHA Thanks Cook
I guess nobody has any guidelines in writing from HACCP, I'll go by the USDA guidelines, that I have in writing.
Cook
Babbling Farker
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,698
- Reaction score
- 1,714
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 50
In my current life I am the GM of a fast-casual, regional restaurant chain. We have a HACCP plan in place and follow them to a "T". When our bi-yearly inspection comes around the inspector pulls our log books and checks the past six months...PAGE BY PAGE. If anything is not done, we lose inspection points. We check time/temp three times a day...every day. I know of some restaurants that do time/temp as much as five times a day. I'm not sure if things have changed in the industry since you've been out, but I can say in my company's franchise locations we do everything by the book and, as responsible managers, we make sure everything is done every single day.
This is my first experience with a chain-type restaurant. I've owned a couple of restaurants and been in the industry for a decade. I've learned as much in the past year as I did in the previous 10. I'm glad I landed in a spot where I can actually manage responsibly and learn "corporate standards" at the same time.
Johnny_Crunch
Babbling Farker
Eat it!
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Exactly. The guys above are debating the 220/225 can bacterial grow
thing. I'm not certain that they didn't miss the whole point. It's HIGHLY
unlikely he was cooking at 220. I'll be it was somewhere around 180 or
possibly a little lower.
