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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind. |
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07-15-2013, 03:20 PM | #46 | |
is One Chatty Farker
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07-15-2013, 04:42 PM | #47 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-09-07
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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We competed in Holbrook, AZ this past weekend and I love the new score sheet. Lot's of great info. I also took a little time and used the new information about tables to crunch a few numbers. Here is what I've learned about that event.
There were 27 teams at the event and 5 tables of judges. The actual CBJ percentage is unknown but I know it is less than 100% per the contest reps. First I figured the Average Placing for Each Meat by Table and then Overall Table 1 Chicken - 9.83 Ribs - 13.60 Pork - 4.80 Brisket - 13.60 Overall - 10.43 Table 2 Chicken - 16.00 Ribs - 16.17 Pork - 14.60 Brisket - 15.20 Overall - 15.55 Table 3 Chicken - 7.40 Ribs - 9.50 Pork - 14.67 Brisket - 8.60 Overall - 10.23 Table 4 Chicken - 19.80 Ribs - 20.40 Pork - 22.17 Brisket - 20.00 Overall - 20.67 Table 5 Chicken - 17.40 Ribs - 10.80 Pork - 12.00 Brisket - 10.67 Overall - 12.62 From this, it is very easy to tell that the hot tables were Tables 1 & 3, that Table 5 just a bit cooler, that Table 2 was just about at the average and that Table 4 was the Table of Death. I also calculated the Number of Top 10 Calls by Table and what percentage that represented of all the Top 10 Calls Table 1 # of all T-10 Calls - 13 % of all T-10 Calls - 32.50% Table 2 # of all T-10 Calls - 5 % of all T-10 Calls - 12.50% Table 3 # of all T-10 Calls - 13 % of all T-10 Calls - 32.50% Table 4 # of all T-10 Calls - 2 % of all T-10 Calls - 5.00% Table 5 # of all T-10 Calls - 7 % of all T-10 Calls - 17.50% From this you can see that 65.00% of all the Top 10 calls came from Tables 1 & 3 and that 82.50% of all the Top 10 calls came from Tables 1,3 & 5. I then calculated the Number of Bottom 10 Calls by Table and what percentage that represented of all the Bottom 10 Calls. (This contest had one team that was DQ'd for being late so there are only 39 places used for this set of numbers.) Table 1 # of all T-10 Calls - 5 % of all T-10 Calls - 12.82% Table 2 # of all T-10 Calls - 10 % of all T-10 Calls - 25.64% Table 3 # of all T-10 Calls - 5 % of all T-10 Calls - 12.82% Table 4 # of all T-10 Calls - 17 % of all T-10 Calls - 43.59% Table 5 # of all T-10 Calls - 2 % of all T-10 Calls - 5.13% This data shows that 69.23% of all the Bottom 10 calls came from Tables 2 & 4 with 43.59% of those calls coming from Table 4 alone. Table 4 was indeed the Table of Death at this contest. One would expect that in any field of teams there will be a good blend of experience levels and that since all the boxes should be hitting different tables the numbers should average out pretty close to each other by the end of the event assuming that the Reps took proper care in balancing the tables. It is impossible for anyone other than the Reps and the Judges to know if this was done. I have been told that many Reps balance the tables based upon experience but it would seem that this new scoring program would give Reps the ability to balance the CBJs at a contest based upon their historical scoring average instead of expereince which might be a very good thing. Now, I can be a bit cynical at times and all this new data leads me to the cynical conclusion of wondering how long we will be able to see the data points of which table every entry at a contest landed. I wonder because it, for the first time ever, gives conclusive information regarding the quality of the work done by the Reps and the Judges and that means a whole new level of public accountability for those two groups. I hope all the information stays visible and that it leads to improvement but only time will tell. One last thing about this contest that I think is interesting: After the first three categories, the eventual GC and RGC were less than 4 points apart and neither team had landed on Table 4. In Brisket, the GC landed on Table 3 and the RGC landed on Table 4. The final margin of victory was 16 points. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if they and both missed Table 4 or both landed on Table 4.
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07-15-2013, 04:57 PM | #48 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 04-06-10
Location: Banning,Ca
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07-15-2013, 05:00 PM | #49 |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 04-22-10
Location: NEW ENGLAND
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i only saw the new score sheet for couple minutes(it wasn't mine).
after all that work, would it be possible to narrow down what was going on at table four by judge? like say, one or two individuals were actually bringing the whole table down? i'd find it hard to beleive all six judges at a table were lowballers. i'd also find it hard to beleive all six entries for all four categories were subpar that hit table 4.
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07-15-2013, 05:08 PM | #50 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 02-18-10
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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[QUOTE=Vince RnQ;2552676]
There were 27 teams at the event and 5 tables of judges. The actual CBJ percentage is unknown but I know it is less than 100% per the contest reps. QUOTE] Vince - I spoke with one of the judges after the comp and she said it was 65% CBJ. 35% were VIP's from the town of Holbrook - Approx 2 non CBJ's per table!
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07-15-2013, 05:11 PM | #51 | |
is one Smokin' Farker
Join Date: 12-11-09
Location: Marshall MO
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07-15-2013, 05:14 PM | #52 | |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 04-22-10
Location: NEW ENGLAND
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i mean, really, the only two stable tables were two and five. one and three were high and four was low.
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07-15-2013, 05:22 PM | #53 | |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 11-19-09
Location: Whittier, CA
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I also believe table captains are given sheets to mark off and check to make sure they don't get the same boxes twice. Maybe that only happens with certain KCBS reps, I'm not sure. |
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07-15-2013, 05:23 PM | #54 | |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-03-06
Location: Chi-Town
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[quote=Smitty250;2552711]
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Tucson Sam's had 3 new judges per table. My table was the only table with only 2 brand new judges. But we also had 2 judges that it was only their second contest judging... so if you wonder why scores are crazy. To just got out of the first round is the hardest at Sam's and a lot of good teams get burned by I experienced judging. No thank you.
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07-15-2013, 05:26 PM | #55 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 02-18-10
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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What was interesting to me was that we were told in the cooks meeting that this was a true double blind system. After the competition I was looking over the new score sheet with a fellow competitor and his family member judged the comp. She also looked at my score sheet (first time she has seen it as well) and said she can tell me exactly what she scored me (and any other competitor for that matter) if she sees thier score sheet since she knew her table number and seat number.
She seemed to think the old way was more "blind" as she never remembered the alternate numbers that the teams were given upon turn-in and our old score cards did not say what table number our entry was on. I have never judged so I don't know what goes on "behind the curtain" but it seems to me like the old score sheets were more "blind" than the new ones? Does this make sense? Don't get me wrong - as a competitor I really like the new score sheets especially seeing what other teams were on my same table.
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07-15-2013, 05:37 PM | #56 | |
Babbling Farker
Join Date: 04-22-10
Location: NEW ENGLAND
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[quote=Scottie;2552733]
Quote:
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[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Blue"][I][FONT="Lucida Sans Unicode"][/FONT]"YAWN"[/I][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]-[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="2"]In memory of a friend.[/SIZE][/COLOR] avatar by grillman. patent pending. :mad2::becky: |
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07-15-2013, 05:43 PM | #57 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 02-18-10
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
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[quote=boogiesnap;2552751]Scottie is talking about a different competition earlier this year in AZ. He didn't judge Holbrook.
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07-15-2013, 05:43 PM | #58 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-11-10
Location: Northern VA
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I think the new system will be a good thing as long as KCBS uses it to re-educate (if needed) judges on what the rules are.
As for me, the last comp Hoggin Up in Winchester, VA, it would have been great to have this in place as far as our chicken goes. Our scores were: 999 998 999 987 778 978 And yes, we used that "chicken style" that everyone seems to shy away from. I think you know what I mean. But to get 9's across the board for appearance except for 1 judge, I ain't sure about that. And the reason I say that is last year when we judged Smokin' On The Bay, as we were leaving the judging tent area, I overheard a couple of the judges talking about the certain "chicken style". One said to the other, "If I ever see another chicken ball again, I swear I will give it the lowest score I can! I hate that crap" I wish I had more balls (not chicken balls ) at the time and told him he was messed up (although I would have used a few different words). That was bull crap as he was not giving everyone a fair shot. Preconceived bias about what was being presented is farked! No excuses for my scores; they are what they are and I'll take what I get. I just hope that the new system will help weed-out some of this. But like most things in my life, reality is what it is: Schit in one hand and wish in the other; see which one fills up first. I look forward to our next comp. wallace
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07-15-2013, 05:46 PM | #59 | |
Found some matches.
Join Date: 12-26-08
Location: San Diego, CA
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I believe ALL Reps are to use the tracking sheets. If they don't, how do they prevent duplicates? You can have a table captain OCCASIONALLY not cross off all the boxes on his tracking slip and then pick up a duplicate box however this should be extremely rare. |
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07-15-2013, 06:29 PM | #60 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 09-09-07
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Judge 1 - 29.0094 Judge 2 - 28.7486 Judge 3 - 28.5371 Judge 4 - 26.2769 Judge 5 - 26.8790 Judge 6 - 29.1912 Their combined average for the contest was 28.1070 The combined average for the other tables I can see are: Table 1 - 32.4984 Table 2 - 31.0785 Table 5 - 31.9779 That's a huge difference.
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