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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 08-18-2019, 09:45 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Michigan BBQ Fan View Post
Probably. One way to know is to try it out and let the system react to it. What about this idea....organizers could connect with a local meat provider and give contestants access to meat when they arrive at such a deep discount that it only makes "sense" to buy it there? Sure, others will still pay hundreds of dollars for Wagyu etc...but..others can compete at a discount rate.

Or, another CRAZY idea...what if got bonus points for using a lesser grade of beef? I know...probably impossible to implement. Just brainstorming.
Here's an idea. Let teams cook what they want. Part of being a good cook is the skill of picking what to cook.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:47 AM   #77
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I am using this quote as an example, not to single it out. Why does every idea have to be a mandate or apply to all events? Can't we loosen up the rules just a bit for the masters series to give promoters discretion to try new things? As long as some basic parameters are followed, for me it is traditional 4 meats with KCBS judging process, then why not let the promoters decide on some of the other details?

You want to pay 10 deep at your event, do it. You want a winner take all $50K event to attract the big name teams, might as well give it a try. You want to require teams buy their meat at the local Costco because they are sponsoring the event...that works for me too. I would not want any of these mandated at all events but it also does not bother me if a promoter wants to try them at any event. If I don't like a particular requirement for an event then I won't go but I don't want the rules to be so strict that others don't have the choice. We are loosing contests so we need to try new things to see what works.
The rules are already loosened up. Organizers can already have meat provided contests. Look how popular they've gotten. So popular most of them didn't last but 2 years.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:48 AM   #78
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@Michigan BBQ Fan...love some of those ideas!


Alright...

The "sport of competitive BBQ." We're going to call this KCBS competition a "sport." Ok...if we are operating under the premise that it is similar to other sports, then the very nature of it's current structure is hampering interest. Cost is a big part of it. A recent study found the largest decline in youth sports? Costs (especially with traveling leagues). While participant/event costs for the KCBS loom large, one or more elements should be leveled out among the competitors to spur involvement.

The current rules and judging simply isn't enough. As an old friend of mine once said: "You keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you got."

Follow me here. Other sports put measures in place to level the playing field and eliminate a "competitive advantage." Player drafts and draft order is one example. A salary cap is another one. Rules for gear being used (Antonio Brown and his helmet, no corked bats, no steroids, etc.). I'll even point out many folks beloved sport of NASCAR. NASCAR is a sport that absolutely tries to remove every element of the "competitive edge" from a race (especially from the car itself). A sport where it want's driver vs. driver or team vs. team. Can a crew make a car go faster? You bet it can. Bill Elliot and his car from the 1980's would dominate every single race today (any people would complain about him driving 20mph faster than everyone else). Today only a certain number variables can be modified on a car for a given race. It's not who has the best car. NASCAR has been molded into "who is the best driver and the best team."

So back to KCBS. What can be done?

Sponsor provided meat is one idea mentioned. A lottery for selection is another (like the SCA does). You pick two racks in the first round, two in the second.

I really like the idea of a standard box. Maybe it's compartmentalized? Maybe no garnish is allowed?

Thinking back to IROC...what if everyone had to cook on a Weber kettle or a WSM that was provided by the event? The little kids comps do that with Smokey Joes. Why not the big guys? People with 100k trailers would bitch. They might not want to do it. Fine. But I'd be willing to bet that it would draw a few more people in because they could cook on the same grill they have in their backyard or had at home growing up.





What a great way to kill teams from getting meat and equipment sponsors........


Sounds like BBQ socialism.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:57 AM   #79
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In adding absurd amounts of rub, salt, and MSG - yes, you're right. They (you) are much better cooks than I am. Hands down. You've perfected the "art" of creating one-bite impressions that in totality make a sickening meal. Congratulations.

In terms of juciness and tenderness, and something everyday people would want to eat and keep eating, you've probably become too indoctrinated to "one-bite impressions" to even be in the same ball park as the average backyard cook.

Again, congratulations.
you say rub, salt and msg like it's a bad thing
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:59 AM   #80
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Then I learned that the objective of the majority of KCBS cooks was to create a "one bite" explosion of flavor that overwhelmed the judges' taste buds to the point of making a big impression, yet unwelcome by most "dinner eaters" standards for a full meal. And I experienced it myself, as a KCBS BBQ judge.

I got so sick of over-salted, over-spiced, MSG-filled meat that I quit judging altogether. I much preferred my backyard BBQ to the "professional quality" meat I had been eating at KCBS competitions.
My objective is to win. That's it.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:00 AM   #81
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I'd like to see more meat provided competitions ala King of the Smoker format. All teams provided the same quality of meat via a random draw. No SRF Gold or A9 brisket...no Duroc pork...just simple commodity choice meats. Let the skill of the Pitmasters determine who's the best...

Why no SRF or Duroc pork? I happen to cook Duroc pork from Compart Family Farms. Why are you targeting their product? They are a family full of great people who have contributed a lot to competition BBQ. If you think killing off sales opportunities for a family farm in Minnesota is the fix to competition BBQ then I feel bad for you. Same with SRF, they've dumped tons of money into our "sport".



Here's an idea, shut up and cook. 2 weeks ago, the comp I competed at had a first place pork from a team I know cooks Tyson butts from walmart. They ran my pork process. I taught them how to cook pork. This week I won pork. You people act like it's all the meat and not any of the skill of the cook. Clark, Darren, Tim, Brad, Blane, Matt walker will all whip your ass with a choice brisket from walmart. And many of those guys already cook commodity pork.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:31 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by tduffy View Post
Why no SRF or Duroc pork? I happen to cook Duroc pork from Compart Family Farms. Why are you targeting their product? They are a family full of great people who have contributed a lot to competition BBQ. If you think killing off sales opportunities for a family farm in Minnesota is the fix to competition BBQ then I feel bad for you. Same with SRF, they've dumped tons of money into our "sport".



Here's an idea, shut up and cook. 2 weeks ago, the comp I competed at had a first place pork from a team I know cooks Tyson butts from walmart. They ran my pork process. I taught them how to cook pork. This week I won pork. You people act like it's all the meat and not any of the skill of the cook. Clark, Darren, Tim, Brad, Blane, Matt walker will all whip your ass with a choice brisket from walmart. And many of those guys already cook commodity pork.
I don't think JD was suggesting that ALL contests would be meat supplied events. Just that he would like to see a few more of them. I don't think that would sink SRF or Compart Farms. And JD does cook - quite well. He took 2nd in pork last weekend, not using Compart pork, because we cannot get Compart pork in the northwest unless you have an in with a food service wholesaler or are willing to pay about $100 per butt to have it shipped here.
When you say "You people act like it's all the meat and not any of the skill of the cook," that is precisely what JD was suggesting, let the skill of the cook be shown by everyone cooking the same quality of meat.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:59 PM   #83
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Didn't King of the Smoker use SRF briskets? And Smithfield pork, which the pork team of the year last year happens to use, and you can buy at Walmart?
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:02 PM   #84
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Not everyone gets the same quality of meat at the contests where it is provided. How much extra will organizers have to buy to ensure everyone get a brisket of the exact same quality. Not to mention beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so what is a perfect brisket to one team may be crap for another. What are the parameters for teams getting to pick new meat? What if the ribs don't have any shiners but don't have the marbling I look for and other teams have great marbling? Do I get to pick new ones? This just creates a whole new can of worms and new excuses.
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:18 PM   #85
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I don't think JD was suggesting that ALL contests would be meat supplied events. Just that he would like to see a few more of them. I don't think that would sink SRF or Compart Farms. And JD does cook - quite well. He took 2nd in pork last weekend, not using Compart pork, because we cannot get Compart pork in the northwest unless you have an in with a food service wholesaler or are willing to pay about $100 per butt to have it shipped here.
When you say "You people act like it's all the meat and not any of the skill of the cook," that is precisely what JD was suggesting, let the skill of the cook be shown by everyone cooking the same quality of meat.
Thanks....I just about opened my mouth and suggested that JD has more GC's then Travis has pork wins....
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:28 PM   #86
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As a "lower-third" quality cook who has cooked multiple Guinea Pig events, what I enjoy the most is my perception that I have a chance against the top teams based on the quantity of meat we are allowed to cook more than the quality of the meat.


When we are limited to 1 brisket, 2 butts, 3 racks of ribs and 9 thighs, I know that I need to cook each to the best of my ability, as there isn't enough additional product to use as a safety net.



How would teams feel about an event that permits everyone to bring their own meat, but limits the quantities they can cook (exemption for teams doing PC)? This possible scenario would still accomplish a semi-leveling of the playing field for the teams who don't have the money or cooking space to choose from 6+ racks of ribs or multiple briskets, and also provide an incentive for teams to PC (as they would be permitted to cook additional meat, as they need to have extra for sampling)?


Undoubtedly there are flaws in this idea, but it could be a concept which has some potential for expanding upon ...
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Old 08-19-2019, 04:59 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by DUBBAGA View Post
As a "lower-third" quality cook who has cooked multiple Guinea Pig events, what I enjoy the most is my perception that I have a chance against the top teams based on the quantity of meat we are allowed to cook more than the quality of the meat.


When we are limited to 1 brisket, 2 butts, 3 racks of ribs and 9 thighs, I know that I need to cook each to the best of my ability, as there isn't enough additional product to use as a safety net.



How would teams feel about an event that permits everyone to bring their own meat, but limits the quantities they can cook (exemption for teams doing PC)? This possible scenario would still accomplish a semi-leveling of the playing field for the teams who don't have the money or cooking space to choose from 6+ racks of ribs or multiple briskets, and also provide an incentive for teams to PC (as they would be permitted to cook additional meat, as they need to have extra for sampling)?


Undoubtedly there are flaws in this idea, but it could be a concept which has some potential for expanding upon ...
I believe it to be the opposite. I don't think top teams are cooking tons of meat as they know they don't need to and I find that inexperienced teams do thinking they can make up for a poor cook.

I don't see anything wrong with 16/4/3/1 which in many polls seems to be the average.

Bottom line is more teams are cooking better due to the information out there and the classes so widely available. That is mixing up the results among more team and now everyone says the system is broken.
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Old 08-19-2019, 05:27 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by DUBBAGA View Post
As a "lower-third" quality cook who has cooked multiple Guinea Pig events, what I enjoy the most is my perception that I have a chance against the top teams based on the quantity of meat we are allowed to cook more than the quality of the meat.


When we are limited to 1 brisket, 2 butts, 3 racks of ribs and 9 thighs, I know that I need to cook each to the best of my ability, as there isn't enough additional product to use as a safety net.



How would teams feel about an event that permits everyone to bring their own meat, but limits the quantities they can cook (exemption for teams doing PC)? This possible scenario would still accomplish a semi-leveling of the playing field for the teams who don't have the money or cooking space to choose from 6+ racks of ribs or multiple briskets, and also provide an incentive for teams to PC (as they would be permitted to cook additional meat, as they need to have extra for sampling)?

Undoubtedly there are flaws in this idea, but it could be a concept which has some potential for expanding upon ...
Its called the Ironman. Its an awesome contest. Wish we could have cooked this one this year. Except its 1 brisket, 1 pork butt, 1 rack of ribs, and 7 pieces of chicken.
Look up Mason Dixon BBQ. Its a great store and a great contest.
My lollipops did pretty good too when we cooked them. Perdue chicken too.

I liked the format. The best teams still came out on top but it did make it more exciting.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:57 PM   #89
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Here’s a stupid idea....if it’s good to use judge scoring average in an effort to even the field, how about use a handicap scoring system for cooks? If I average 15pts behind GC, I get 15pts added to my score. That would really even things out.

Just kidding.....
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:16 PM   #90
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Here’s a stupid idea....if it’s good to use judge scoring average in an effort to even the field, how about use a handicap scoring system for cooks? If I average 15pts behind GC, I get 15pts added to my score. That would really even things out.

Just kidding.....
Probably the only way to stop the bitching.

It all boils down to the fact that people want to compete against and beat the best, but instead of putting in the time, effort and, yes, money to raise their game up to the level necessary, they want to complain and impose restrictions to bring the competition down to their level.

I honestly think divisions are the answer. The true “pro” circuit might only have a handful of high profile events and teams, while smaller profile local events can cater to teams that don’t have the time and budget to compete on a large scale. We could still come up with ways to involve the “pro” teams at these events. Maybe by implementing restrictions on numbers they can cook, proteins, or whatever.

It isn’t Rocket Surgery. Other “sports” have been here before. Find a model to emulate and get busy. I always see golf and racing as the closest structure wise to comp BBQ. For instance, in racing, the top level guys can compete at a lower level, but the equipment is limited and they don’t get points.
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