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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 07-06-2018, 02:13 PM   #1
Pappy Q
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Default Judges Need To Know...

A recent post in another thread by someone said that Judges need to know that cooks don’t stay awake for their entire cook and something about what’s in their “witches brew” of foil. Well as a Cook, that made me think of some other things “Judges need to know”

- I cook on a stickburner and do stay awake the entire cook
- I spent $250-$300 in entry fees, $400 on meat, $100 on supplies, $100 on travel and another $100 on miscellaneous chit
- I took 1-2 days of vacation time
- I drove 100-400 miles
- I spent 2 days prepping
- I did this all by myself as a one man team
- I did all this just to try to make 24 strangers happy with my food

All I ask in return from you the Judge is to be fair, unbiased and honest in eating/judging the product I worked my arse off to prepare for YOU. Oh and I do ask one more thing, leave your cooler at home.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:35 PM   #2
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I filled your food full of Phosphates, over salted it, and added layers of MSG on the surface. They should know that too.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:41 PM   #3
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I disagree with most of this. I'm sorry, but judges don't need to know how much you spent. If that was the case, we could just compare receipts and go home. Every hobby people have takes up all of their time, and their money if they are doing it all in. I also don't think that whether you did it as a one man team, or a 46 man team really matters. The product is all that matters. The product is what does, and should, be what is judged. Not distance traveled. Not time spent not sleeping. The food.

I do ask for fair, unbiased, and honest judging. If you can do that, we're good.
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pappy Q View Post
A recent post in another thread ...
My thread, trying to learn. Thanks for starting this one. I'm looking forward to reading. Thoughts:

It is worthwhile for judges to appreciate the effort and money that goes into those turn-in boxes. It means we better take our job as seriously as you took the effort. I'm a little ahead of the herd here because I spent 15 years racing sports cars, doing all that weekend stuff, spending significantly more money, towing a 12,000# rig, etc. I know how hard it is.

I am a little fuzzy when I see words like: "fair, unbiased, and honest judging" from @midwest_kc and others. Fair and honest I get, but I'm not sure how a judge would not be fair and honest unless he/she were actually engaged in some kind of cheating scheme. I'm sure the KCBS systems can be subverted since anything is possible but they seem to be reasonably bullet-proof to this newbie.

"Unbiased" is the one that is a bit of a puzzle to me. In the end, the judging is inevitably subjective. Converting subjective ratings to numbers with lots of decimal points doesn't change the fact that they are subjective. So, bias??? I guess I am biased towards what I like, so am I not "unbiased?"

Some scoring is less subjective, like bite tests on ribs, bend/pull tests on brisket, etc. Maybe even "mushy" is somewhat objective. But taste? Appearance?

In the end all I can do is to apply my biases consistently to all competitors and, as a newbie especially, review my scores against the table averages to make sure I am not out in left field somehow. Right? Is there something else?
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:30 PM   #5
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That's one of the reasons that KCBS requires CBJs cook with a team prior to becoming a Master. No better way of learning what it's like as a team than to go cook with one.
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:58 PM   #6
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As far as fair, honest and unbiased, I got that from the OP. That was the part I agreed with.

To me, the unbiased part comes in when, to take an example from the other thread, you don't like ribs with sauce on the sides, so it gets marked down for that reason. Now, the subjective side does come in and if the specific turn in looks unappealing, etc, then of course they should be scored accordingly. But, to say that they get marked down solely because there is sauce on the sides, that's the bias, and bringing preconceived opinions that I'm talking about.
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:43 PM   #7
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Why the hate for bringing a cooler?

Would you rather the food go to waste?
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:03 PM   #8
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Cook MBN you’ll enjoy it a lot more.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke ninja View Post
Why the hate for bringing a cooler?

Would you rather the food go to waste?
I think some cooks feel like a judge isnt taking enough of a sample bite if they are filling their coolers. It does not really bother me. I consider it a compliment. That being said I can understand that concern. You definitly want a judge to take a large enough bite to have a good sample size. I don't think most judges aren't taking a good enough bite to fill their coolers.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:22 AM   #10
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I personally would like to see organizers take my leftovers that I didn’t turn in to distribute to the judges after the contest and have the samples I turn in be for judging purposes only.

I’d be more than happy to load judges up for their time and effort.
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:43 AM   #11
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Good thread IMHO.

I will echo the sentiment that the effort going into these things should be considered at all times. IE: the judges should have an understanding of the amount of work put into producing that product they are about to sample and that should simply reinforce the awesome level of responsibility to do his or her best in scoring the turn-ins.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gettinbasted View Post
I personally would like to see organizers take my leftovers that I didn’t turn in to distribute to the judges after the contest and have the samples I turn in be for judging purposes only.

I’d be more than happy to load judges up for their time and effort.
We have a Master CBJ here in Ohio that trades bourbon (quality stuff too!) for BBQ teams' leftovers. We've traded with him several times.

Basically at every comp he's judging he picks 1-2 teams, messages them ahead of time, "You in for the trade?" "Yep!" "Cool!"

You want to see a judge who has a great relationship with cook teams...because that's one!
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Kettle View Post
I think some cooks feel like a judge isnt taking enough of a sample bite if they are filling their coolers. ...
For this newbie judge with cooler, the issue is not the cooler it is internal capacity. If I eat an ounce from each sample, I will have eaten 1 1/2# by the end of the judging. For me that makes for a very uncomfortable ride home!
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airedale View Post
For this newbie judge with cooler, the issue is not the cooler it is internal capacity. If I eat an ounce from each sample, I will have eaten 1 1/2# by the end of the judging. For me that makes for a very uncomfortable ride home!
There is no whining allowed in BBQ. Sounds like judging is a LOT harder than cooking?
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Kettle View Post
I think some cooks feel like a judge isnt taking enough of a sample bite if they are filling their coolers. It does not really bother me. I consider it a compliment. That being said I can understand that concern. You definitly want a judge to take a large enough bite to have a good sample size. I don't think most judges aren't taking a good enough bite to fill their coolers.
I think there is a small minority of judges that take smaller bites to the purpose of filling their coolers...but it has happened. Despite the small risk associated with this, many cooks agree that it takes away from the “fair” part of what we’re asking judges to do. We ask them to give every sample a fair opportunity to impress them. Micro-bites do not allow for that. In a game where now the 5th score is often the determining factor, there’s no room for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airedale View Post
For this newbie judge with cooler, the issue is not the cooler it is internal capacity. If I eat an ounce from each sample, I will have eaten 1 1/2# by the end of the judging. For me that makes for a very uncomfortable ride home!
But that is what you signed up for as a judge. I took the same class as you. They are very clear about what you should expect. To not take a full bite of every sample because you get too full is a disservice to the cooks. But I also don’t believe that every bite is a full 1 oz.
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