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For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter. |
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11-15-2011, 02:37 PM | #1 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 04-21-06
Location: Lake Ponderosa-Montezuma, IA
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Candidate question 4ish
I would like to know how the candiates feel about requiring head cooks to be active KCBS members.
Ed
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Designer of a custom drum smoker Customized Aussie gas passer Turkey fryer Extremely seasoned hand hammered Wok Pit Boss-HART BURN Competition BBQ Team KCBS certified judge And Your not the boss of me either!! |
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11-15-2011, 03:40 PM | #2 |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-12-06
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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I'd love to see that - if we can figure out how to do it without shooting ourselves in the foot. As it stands right now we're trying to get more KCBS contests in areas that we don't have a strong presence, such as the Pacific northwest, New England, Texas, etc. If we require that the cooks join KCBS that might be the deciding factor on whether a team cooks our contest or goes somewhere else.
Maybe we can encourage the teams to join by offering a rebate ($10 to $25 ???) to teams that have a KCBS membership number. Maybe we could offer a membership with the entry fee at certain first time comps. These are just "what if" answers and really need to be studied further for legality, practicality, cost effectiveness, etc before any decision is reached. The ultimate goal would to have all teams as KCBS members and active in the organization.
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Dave Compton KCBS MasterCBJ # 22569 Member of the 100+ Contest Club Judge Number 6 competition BBQ team Possibly the only judge ever to get an award from a bunch of cooks UDS 075 UCB WSM and a bunch of other stuff. |
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11-15-2011, 04:33 PM | #3 |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 10-12-11
Location: Grimes, Iowa
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I would like to see membership be encouraged strongly. Maybe have TOY and other award candidates be required to be members before they can be considered for those awards. (Kind of like a contingency)
I think that requiring will be tough to do. Just like any other requirement some people will see it as micromanagement. Ed, I personally wonder why there is a double standard for judges and cooks. Why is membership required to judge and not cook? You can't have a contest without both groups... Great question Ed! |
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11-15-2011, 04:57 PM | #4 | |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 02-07-06
Location: boston ma
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Quote:
Every team pays an entry fee which in turn pays for the sanctioning. Nobody that pays the entry fee is getting a free ride. If you look at the KCBS financials a lot more money comes in via sanctioning fees than membership fees. Sanctioning fees pay for all the reps, slips, plates computer usage etc. I can certainly understand requiring membership to be eligible for Team of the Year and any other benefit programs that KCBS provides.
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Steve Farrin KCBS BOD member. Thank you for your support. This post is my opinion and mine alone, not necessarily that of the KCBS, it's board of directors or office nor that of Peter Pan, Tinkerbell and certainly not Rush Limbaugh. |
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11-15-2011, 08:29 PM | #5 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
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I would strongly oppose that. KCBS is selling a service to an organizer, we don't need to place additional restrictions on them. They aren't required to use CBJs who get a membership with their class, but many choose to. Beyond that, we would be getting into areas that I don't think we want to venture into. If membership is required it's no longer truly 'Open'.
Whether one is a member or not, they are paying a fee when they enter. I think we need to do a better job of making it worth their $ to join.
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa Keeping Valspar in BBQ, one cook at a time. Recipient of a Huggies box! Shut up, and cook!!!! |
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11-16-2011, 09:04 AM | #6 | |
is Blowin Smoke!
Join Date: 12-14-05
Location: New England
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Quote:
230 for non members 200 for members Organizer sends $30 to kcbs for that teams membership I personally think if you are going to compete under a sanctioning body you should be a member. |
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11-16-2011, 10:15 AM | #7 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 09-23-07
Location: North Side of Chicago Illinois
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Quote:
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Jeff CBJ# 23376 Stockcar BBQ Race Fast, Cook Slow, and Enjoy Life! If it don't come off a smoker, it's just a side dish! Lang 60 Patio (The Mistress), Black Stainless Lang 36 (Little Princess), Large BGE (Ramona), Big Green UDS (Cottage Cooker), Brinkman SnP Pro (Little Bubba-Retired), 8 Burner Gasser, 3 - 22.5" & 1 - 18" (circa 1975) Weber Grills, & a Weber Smoky Joe. |
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11-16-2011, 10:38 AM | #8 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
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Quote:
I believe the larger factor was that requiring membership would have raised a question about the contest being 'Open'. That in turn has implications for the larger invitational events. EDIT: and there could be some 501C issues as well.
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa Keeping Valspar in BBQ, one cook at a time. Recipient of a Huggies box! Shut up, and cook!!!! |
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11-16-2011, 10:57 AM | #9 |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-04-05
Location: Pleasant Hill, MO
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If I recall correctly, it was mostly because of the 501c issue that this didn't happen. That's just the way I remember it though. As an organizer myself, I don't want to be responsible for collecting fees but it really isn't difficult to do if this was something we found legal to do with the 501c thing. Just collect it and when you write the check to KCBS after awards, you just add on the additional amounts for non-KCBS teams who competed and give the reps contact info you collected on the entry form.
I don't think I'd like to see membership required to compete. I think the better angle rather than forcing someone to join is to get new teams involved and show them the benefit of membership while they're at the contest. Reps should speak with all non-member head cooks and welcome them and show a KCBS presence. Give them a Bullsheet (which we need to constantly improve upon - I would love to discuss this issue in another thread), some coupons for BBQ related products and whatever else we can come up with to put our best foot forward in extending a welcome to non-member teams and, if they join, recognize them at awards ceremonies as a new KCBS member. Instead of force, why not persuade and then make them feel like a part of the family?
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11-16-2011, 11:11 AM | #10 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
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I'll just chine in on this because I had a conversation with Wayne Lohman about this very issue this year. The specific reason he gave me was that the not-for-profit status of the KCBS would be affected by requiring membership to compete. I asked him about discounts for KCBS members, and he said that it was an idea being considered. I've seen a few comps that do this, and The National BBQ Cup this weekend is doing it too. The "Open" nature of requiring membership was not brought up (That doesn't make it untrue) but personally I don't see it as an issue. Non-member teams would not be excluded from competing as KCBS membership itself is open. That's just my take on it. IANAL.
I'm not running for the BOD, but my personal opionion for those who are and may get on there, I don't think it would be a bad thing to give a discount to KCBS members for a KCBS sanctioned event. I see all sides of the argument, and have even said that people shouldn't become members "just because." I agree that the sanctioning, as a service, is paid for by entry fees, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful to have more cook members. Years ago I competed in a Chilli cookoff, and they had a similar system in place where members got cheaper entrance fees. I remember thinking it was a mild pain, but it didn't really change our mind. We chose not to join as it was our only event and cheaper that way. Others might do the same with KCBS. Another option I've been considering: Judges aren't required to be members, but organizers require them to "apply" and often give first priority to members, right? Why not take a similar approach with teams? If your team is not a "member team" and you submit an application, you go on a wait list and are only allowed to compete if the comp doesn't fill up with members by 28 days before the event. Does that sound reasonable? Teams can always pay the $35 to join and be guarenteed if they want, though this may affect the "open" nature as well. dmp |
11-16-2011, 11:21 AM | #11 | |
somebody shut me the fark up.
Join Date: 01-23-04
Location: DFW, San AntonioTx
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Quote:
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You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. --Frank Zappa Keeping Valspar in BBQ, one cook at a time. Recipient of a Huggies box! Shut up, and cook!!!! |
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11-16-2011, 02:47 PM | #12 | |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-12-06
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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Quote:
However, there is nothing stoping the organizer from using non-certified judges if he wants to. They just can't be counted as part of the CBJ per centage that is published in the Bullsheet showing what was the % last year. Most KCBS contest organizers try for as many CBJs as they can get but there are some who would rather have a large % of celebrity judges instead (North Kansas City comes to mind).
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Dave Compton KCBS MasterCBJ # 22569 Member of the 100+ Contest Club Judge Number 6 competition BBQ team Possibly the only judge ever to get an award from a bunch of cooks UDS 075 UCB WSM and a bunch of other stuff. |
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11-16-2011, 04:24 PM | #13 |
is One Chatty Farker
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
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That was my point. :) KCBS sanctioned contests don't have to use CBJs, or even trained judges, but organizers tend to prefer them. The reasons are irrelevent for this conversation, just that those who aren't certified (i.e. trained and current members) are often lower on the priority list. Would it be the worst thing in the world to do the same with cook teams? I'm not pushing for that idea, but it is an idea which I've not heard discussed. Maybe for good reason.
dmp |
11-17-2011, 09:51 AM | #14 | |
Full Fledged Farker
Join Date: 09-28-11
Location: Harleysville, PA
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Quote:
Also, I think that if a team believes it will be competing in multiple KCBS events, that it is in their best interest to join. If for nothing more than the voting rights. It is hard to justify complaining about a system if you don't vote. Ken |
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11-17-2011, 10:36 AM | #15 | |
Quintessential Chatty Farker
Join Date: 11-12-06
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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Quote:
Oh well, maybe they're happy with the way things are.
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Dave Compton KCBS MasterCBJ # 22569 Member of the 100+ Contest Club Judge Number 6 competition BBQ team Possibly the only judge ever to get an award from a bunch of cooks UDS 075 UCB WSM and a bunch of other stuff. |
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