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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 07-25-2016, 11:49 PM   #61
bjarolim
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80g/l is still less than 10% salt content...my issue is you saying that will sterilize and kill all bacteria...im not saying your warm brine chicken is bad news.....but saying that the salt makes your brine sterile and completely safe is misguided, would you drizzle your brine on your salad and eat it? If not then don't say that cross contamination isn't an issue....cross contamination is an issue in the fridge too....the fridge kills zero bacteria and i haven't read where anyone said it did. Neither the fridge or a brine or a refrigerated brine is a sterile, bacteria free place....do what you want but i don't want someone who hasn't brined anything reading this and thinking "salt kills everything" and then go make too weak of a brine, leave it on the counter all day and have a salmonella factory brewing and then get sick because of something he read on the internet.
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:27 AM   #62
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ah yes. The toxic brine.

I use it. Have for years. I don't drink it, don't wash my countertops with it

i'm not too afraid of somebody making a brine that is too weak, anymore than I'm worrying about somebody under cooking the chicken, or getting into an accident on the way to buy the chicken.
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Old 07-26-2016, 07:35 AM   #63
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I got fired from my job at the salmonella factory last week....

....i drizzled contaminated brine on my boss' salad

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Old 07-26-2016, 08:03 AM   #64
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I got fired from my job at the salmonella factory last week....

....i drizzled contaminated brine on my boss' salad

I was going to make a joke about tossing the boss' salad to get your job back....but since this thread is about food safety I'll keep it clean
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:16 AM   #65
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Smoke Ninja is maybe the funniest fellow here. Loved your convo on wood vs charcoal
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:52 AM   #66
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I love the subject line of this thread.

I don't care if you choose to do this, but wonder why you would.

I wonder whether it is true nothing can live in the brine. Countless things live in salty oceans. Things live in the most inhospitable places imaginable on the earth, I think you might not be giving life enough credit.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:32 AM   #67
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Let me clarify. I'm not saying that a brine will sterilize and kill anything and everything. That 100% lethality argument was introduced by others. What I've said since the first post is that the brine is completely inhospitable to microbes. This is not an active breeding environment. Microbes are dying dramatically, but because that lethality number isn't 100%, people call foul (fowl).

I have further asserted that a bag of chicken in the fridge is a much more effective breeder. It's just cold, which sloooows stuff. Doesn't kill. Yet no one would go into panic mode over a chicken in a bag in the fridge despite it being a better breeding environment.

I have not flaunted cross contamination. That was introduced by someone else here on this thread. If you're processing meat in your salad crisper- well then you're just gross and irresponsible. That has zip to do with the original thread tenet. I am only discussing the merits and low risk of a warm brine on my countertop.

To repeat the 2 primary reasons I do this: Time and Penetration. I can make a brine, brine the bird for 3-4 hours, pat dry & toss in the fridge to air dry, then cook for dinner- all in the same day. The warm brine penetrates faster, if not deeper, and people notice it
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:28 AM   #68
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Ted....for the most part I agree with you. As someone who controls microbiological growth for a living I just want to make it clear that "inhibiting growth" and "killing" are 2 very different things when talking about microbes. Microbes are amazingly resilient, and while a brine will likely kill most free floating bugs, it won't kill them all, especially if they have formed biofilm. For example, if your brine splashes and a few drop land on the counter, you wipe it up with a wet sponge(which dilutes the brine) you just put any bacteria that weren't growing into an environment (the sponge and the wet counter) where they likely can start growing again because they aren't in that strong brine. Cold brining slows growth better than warm brining....but if you're only talking a few hours then I don't think it really matters....would be way more of a risk if it was a longer brine time (days or weeks) and you weren't using a cure....my main point is that the actual brine itself(refrigerated or not) should be treated as if it were the same as the liquid dripping off a raw unbrined bird. Again, I'm not saying your chicken isn't safe, it was just that reading this thread could lead someone to thinking brining somehow makes it less important to practice basic food safety with raw meats. That all I have on this topic....I will say this, if you start a new thread about not washin your hands after using the bathroom I'm out! I'm not touching it lol
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:38 AM   #69
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Thanks for your moderate tone krex010 As I've mentioned, others have put forth the 100% lethality goal.

And I'm looking at 3-4 hours on my countertop.

And obviously no one wants to splash liquids all over the place. On this thread, the cross contamination burden has been discussed only with this warm brine, but obviously cross-contamination is a factor in your fridge as well. My point is that a cross contamination discussion isn't limited to a warm brine.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:47 AM   #70
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Thanks for your moderate tone krex010 As I've mentioned, others have put forth the 100% lethality goal.

And I'm looking at 3-4 hours on my countertop.

And obviously no one wants to splash liquids all over the place. On this thread, the cross contamination burden has been discussed only with this warm brine, but obviously cross-contamination is a factor in your fridge as well. My point is that a cross contamination discussion isn't limited to a warm brine.
Amen brotha! Good chat.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:55 AM   #71
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Thank you, Krex
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:23 AM   #72
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I agree with you TedW. I don't see a problem with the warm brine for a few hours. If you put the brined chicken in the frig like the others have suggested, how long would it take to get below 40 degrees F? A few hours? Seems like it really wouldn't make much difference either way.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:26 AM   #73
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Thank you toymaster.

My fridge is set at 35. Might take a couple hours for the core of the bird to hit 35. Maybe 3. Dunno, really.

After brine I generally spatch the bird and put in the fridge on a raised rack so all sides get dry overnight.

If I'm cooking that night, it might only get 2-3 hours in the fridge before I cook it.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:55 AM   #74
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I agree with you TedW. I don't see a problem with the warm brine for a few hours. If you put the brined chicken in the frig like the others have suggested, how long would it take to get below 40 degrees F? A few hours? Seems like it really wouldn't make much difference either way.
Most folks that I know that brine, makes sure their brine is under 40* when putting the chicken in it....but to each his own!
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:59 AM   #75
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Not too long ago folks avoided pink pork too, decades after the threat of trichinosis had passed.

People used to use antibiotic soaps, and now we know this is not only bad for the environment, it's bad for your home, too.

We were told to avoid full-fat milk, eggs, and cholesterol in general. Now we're officially told that dietary cholesterol has jack squat to do with blood cholesterol, and you'll lose more weight with full-fat milk than 2%.

Go figure
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